Gladiator LNER/BR J6

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Robpulham
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:31 pm

Thanks Paul,

TO be fair to them both Dave and Malcolm did mention that it was D shaped rather than half round but of course just like the 12" to the foot world we modellers can only get half round and life's too short to spent time flattening it further.

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Robpulham
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:34 pm

Before closing up the boiler seam I worked on the washout plug holes, mud holes and the rivets/bolts on the side of the firebox - they were interesting to punch out with the boiler pre-rolled.

There are some etches that could be modified for the mud hole clamps but I didn't use them. I had some nice castings from Ragstone for the clamps and surround in stock. They are round when they come and need to be squashed a little to become oval. I heated them to glowing with the microflame and gently squeezed them in the vice.

Next up I tackled the washout plugs/covers. Again there is an etch provided for these.

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They are included on the chassis etch and are nickel silver. Even at half etch they are still quite thick but due to them being hand drawn the spigot that represents the stud and nut was misshapen and not quite central on some. There are six provided where only four are needed so you have a bit of choice.

I decided to use these as the covers but to modify them to have a bit more detail. I soldered them to a backing strip having marked this to ensure that they fit through the holes in the firebox. I had opened these up with a series of broaches and reamers until they were just bigger than the cover plates. I filed off the spigots and punched the centres, then I drilled them with the proxxon. Finally I soldered a short stub of wire in covered by a home made (from filed tube) nut to complete the fitting.

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I popped them in the holes in the firebox to see how they fit.

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In this shot you can also see the Ragstone clamp castings which I have soldered in place.

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Robpulham
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:58 pm

Flushed by the success of the washout plugs and covers I deviated from the kit and decided to see if I could make my own mud hole clamps
After all this is what modelling is about for me at least.

I started by taking measurements from the Ragstone castings. Then I found an appropriate diameter tube in my tube stock and cut a 3.9mm length. This I squeezed gently to make the oval and promptly squashed it. I was about to cut another when I decided to have a go at straightening it using a pair of round nosed pliers. A piece of scrap etch provided a backing plate and I drilled a .8mm hole for the stud. another piece of scrap had a hole drilled in it and then filed and bent to shape for the clamp itself. A short stub of tube under the clamp and a nut I made earlier completed it. a few tiny slivers of solder and a waft with the microflame and I had this.

Image

Image

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Robpulham
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:22 am

While discussing the cab beading, a gent (Dave Lester) on RM Web pointed me at a photo which shows the tops of the cab and upper boiler of a couple of J6's and other locos stabled at Hammerton Street Depot in bradford in the period that this loco is destined for (the photo is on page 38 of Great Northern Railway Engine Sheds volume three - I have the three volumes in my library). What the photo lso shows is that the Safety valves don't just sit on the top of the firebox as you might think from ground level photos.

This is a snip from a scan of the photo that I referred to

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As you can see the base of the valves are inset into the boiler clothing and fastened to the top of the firebox with studs. Yesterday's task was to replicate this with my trusty filed rod and tube.
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The next task is to cut out the firebox top so that I can mount this in place - I may need to trim the mounting plate as I had cut it big enough to hold while drilling all the holes with my pillar drill.

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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by john coffin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:37 pm

Most boiler fittings do in fact sit on the metal body of either the boiler or firebox, plus of course the smokebox,
and your approach looks really good Rob.

However, might I also point your attention to the other clear item in the photo, which is the angle iron which
goes around the front of the spectacle plate and around the firebox. I have included this in my kits, but not
sure whether Malcolm Crawley did with the J6. I do it as two pieces, since I have not yet found a way to
replicate a curved L shape in 4mm

HTH

Paul
ps I agree that it might well be possible that "D" shaped rod was used internally to strengthen the cabs.

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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by jwealleans » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:43 pm

In the J6 I think it's done as a half etch on the cab front and a strip to fit round the boiler so each part is at right angles to the other. In the 4mm one, anyway.

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Robpulham
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:52 pm

Thanks Gents,

I had noted the angle bead and was pondering on how I might replicate it. As far I can see there is nothing provided in the kit for it but I will double check to make sure.

I have some 1mm milled angle but I need to be able to bend it. I am sure that Nick Dunhill has done similar on one of his builds so I will enquire how he did it.

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manna
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by manna » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:17 am

G'Day Gents

Nice watching a J6 come to life.

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by drmditch » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:34 pm

Sorry if this is a bit late, but below are some pictures of No.251's cab at Locomotion, Shildon today.

Most of the 'beading' appears to be split tube. Sorry if this is not clear as it might be in the photographs. I didn't climb into the cab today, but if people want I could perhaps arrange to do that next week. (If we are still allowed to be open!)

Some of the tubing, especially on the tender front (picture not good enough to show) could almost have been oval. Perhaps the same might apply to the top of the cab roof, but difficult to see.
Post_01.jpg
Post_02.jpg
Post_03.jpg
Whether this is 'original', or just what Doncaster did in 1947 (as with much else on this locomotive), I don't know enough to comment!

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Robpulham
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:32 am

Thanks Caroline,

They are most useful, especially the one with the inside of the cab roof. The crop below of the photo I found of Hammerton Street Bradford shows the outline of bolt heads/rivets on the roof and it's good to see what they were attached to underneath.
J6 Safety Valves.jpg

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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by john coffin » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:03 am

Rob,
that looks like it could be an Ivatt rebuild of a Stirling cab, so the rivet strips show where the new piece
was riveted to the older section, and thus the strengthening strip underneath it.

Caroline's photos confirm my thoughts about the not round shape ie D shaped beading.

Paul

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Robpulham
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:46 pm

Thanks Paul,

The other J6 (64203) visible in the photo of Hammerton Street has the same rivet/bolt pattern on the roof too and I have just been sent a view from above of another J6 (64216) which also has them so there must have been a few of them rebuilt if that's what they were.

The guy who has been commenting on RM Web suggests that they were left overs from blackout fittings during the war (if I have correctly interpreted what he said).

I have managed to find a suitable piece of scrap etch which I have already filed to shape so I will add it and pray that a cab shot of 64206 doesn't materialise to prove me wrong at some point.

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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by john coffin » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:04 am

HI Rob, back again to add muck to the mix.

I have of course seen the Hammerson photo before, but cannot find the original right now, not sure what book it was in?
My comments were based on my feeling that this loco is not in fact a J6, but then another lightbulb went off in that
some of the later built Gresley locos were built using ex Ivatt 4-2-2 cabs, GNR number 601-610 BR nos 64250-64259,
but like most I have not seen the top of them in photos. If indeed the photo is a J6, then it might well be possible
that it might have been to do with "nightsheets" during WW2, but of course it highlights the problem modellers
can have with superdetailing in that we have very few photos of cab and boiler tops.
My photo collection only has about 6 photos from above a footbridge, or similar to allow one to see the part of the
cab that most never saw during daily service but we would see every day.

Paul

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Robpulham
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:53 pm

Hi Paul,

The photo is on page 38 (or 48) of GNR Engine sheds volume 3.

I agree and of course as modellers we view them top down rather than from the "lineside" - in most cases. Which is why I like to add as much detail as I can up top where it will be seen.

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manna
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Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by manna » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:09 pm

G'Day Gents

The square panel in the cab roof was removable, when the loco was lifted during a work visit, the lifting sling ? was hooked/bolted to the drag-beam.

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

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