GNR Tender models

This forum is for the discussion of railway modelling of the LNER and its constituent companies.

Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard

Phil Brighton
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:07 pm

GNR Tender models

Post by Phil Brighton »

My mate who lives up the road has bought himself a 3D printer so I am going to try to see what I may be able to get him to print for me.
I am trying my hand at some CAD and made some lamps he has run off but I want to move up to doing a GNR 6 wheel tender. The aim is to make one I could use for potentially putting behind a 02, a K3 and a K2. Are there major differences in the design of these tenders or are they of a similar type. I am practicing my CAD trying to recreate the tender behind the J3 I am currently making from a Nu-Cast kit so hopefully they are all similar?
Any pointers appreciated!
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3827
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by jwealleans »

I have a feeling the J3 one is very uncommon if not flat out wrong for most of the smaller GN locos. I've had to build three or four LRM ones to replace the larger variety NuCast did. It might be right for a K3 or O2, I'd have to check. John Coffin may be along shortly, he knows far more about this kind of thing than me.
john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by john coffin »

Interesting idea, and hope you can make it work.

A little primer about GNR tenders.
1/ ALL Stirling tenders, and all but one Ivatt tender had 6ft 6 +6ft 6 wheel base, that includes the inside spring and outside spring versions,
thus, one might be able to consider a "standard" underframe.

2/ There are only 3 Ivatt 6 wheel tender designs, R22 1896, R23 1896, plus R43 from 1902. The first two having 6ft 6+ 6ft 6 in wheelbase,
R43 having a wheel base of 6ft 1.5 + 6ft 10.5.. The basic difference between the styles is whether or not they are "Horeshoe" for R22,
or Self Trimming for the R23-43.

3/Post 1911, Gresley continued to use 6 wheel tenders to various designs up until 1941, Except for the 8 wheelers behind Pacifics,
his first design was R57, which was the standard 7ft + 6ft wheelbase with 3500 gallon capacity. and this is the tender which would have
been used in the first instance behind 3 of the locos you suggest, they would have been self trimming type.
However, the J3 would have had an Ivatt type, and interim, Stirling/Ivatt tender, or even various Stirling tenders, seldom a Gresley type.

4/ There are a number of variants of the Gresley tenders, since I have a number of drawings of different sideframes as well as
tank drawing.

It might be of interest to understand how the GNR built tenders of only 13 ft wheelbase for more than 50 years, and that is
simply because for most of those years, the tenders were built in a shop that could only accommodate that length, plus also
the ability to build 60 ft and 70 ft turntables was still not evolved.

Obviously for more information, you might contact the GNRS and buy a copy of the GNR tender book written by the
Late Malcolm Crawley an ex Doncaster apprentice, and illustrated with drawings by me.

Good luck

Paul
john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by john coffin »

And yes I do know Stirling made a small run of 4 wheeled tenders for 0-4-2's!!!!

Also, the Baldwin came with an American designed bogie tender.

paul
User avatar
Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 5908
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:51 am
Location: 2850, 245

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Plus, I gather, various examples of older designs being "modernized" over the years either as a routine matter or when repaired using parts of a more modern pattern, and in some cases larger tanks mated to older types of underframe from lower capacity tenders. :roll:
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
Phil Brighton
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by Phil Brighton »

So fairly complicated but if I were to get good enough at the CAD it would be an R57 that would be the one to try to do for K2 O2 etc and would be the drawing to source. Thanks for the help with this. Not sure if it will come to anything anytime soon but I think learning to make models for 3D printing if worth it in the long run.
Phil Brighton
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by Phil Brighton »

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=9 ... &source=48

looks like someone has beaten and to it. I am not how far out the LNER tenders wheelbase is but the steps etc are somewhat different.
User avatar
Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 5908
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:51 am
Location: 2850, 245

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I think I know who the creator of that tender body is (not me by the way). I wonder what provision there is for the rails around the top rear?

There are some differences in the frames, besides just the length, compared to the GS LNER tenders. Now I DO know a many who can produce the correct side frames in cast resin. Given time, bodies in cast resin (from a new mould) may re-appear too.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3402
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 4:43 pm

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by mick b »

NIU asked vai Facebook . He says the rear Coal rail will be in the kit.
User avatar
NZRedBaron
NBR J36 0-6-0
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:58 am

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by NZRedBaron »

I'm actually intrigued now; how many different designs of tenders are they planning to do? Would be nice to get an assortment for various styles, like Great Eastern style short tenders, GN-style, "Stepped out Group Standard", "Flush-sided Group Standard", and so on.
User avatar
Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 5908
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:51 am
Location: 2850, 245

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

"They" I believe are a one-man-band, so far seeking possible interest only, and only in the GN tender body.

Why would you want options to include bodies for which the GS 4200 gal underframe would be wrong? A complete offering would be better. Even if you had to build up the underframe it could be a VERY simple proposition to build if designed and printed properly.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
Phil Brighton
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by Phil Brighton »

Atlantic 3279 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:41 am Now I DO know a many who can produce the correct side frames in cast resin. Given time, bodies in cast resin (from a new mould) may re-appear too.
I would certainly be interested if such a thing were to happen. I am kicking myself for not grabbing a K2 when the opportunity arose.
I am not so keen on the idea of having the wrong frames. If going to the effort and expense to get the right tender might as well get it right.
Horsetan
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:46 pm

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by Horsetan »

john coffin wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:44 pm....3/Post 1911, Gresley continued to use 6 wheel tenders to various designs up until 1941, Except for the 8 wheelers behind Pacifics,
his first design was R57, which was the standard 7ft + 6ft wheelbase with 3500 gallon capacity. and this is the tender which would have
been used in the first instance behind 3 of the locos you suggest, they would have been self trimming type. ...
Is the R57 the type currently attached to no.251?
john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by john coffin »

No 251 has a special type that equates to R23, but with brake shoes in front of the wheel, not behind.

R57 is more likely to be found on such as K3, O1/2

Paul
Horsetan
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:46 pm

Re: GNR Tender models

Post by Horsetan »

john coffin wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:36 pm No 251 has a special type that equates to R23, but with brake shoes in front of the wheel, not behind....
Ah, thanks. I was quite confused about what 251 actually has today - i.e. this one
Post Reply