5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

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john coffin
LNER P2 2-8-2
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by john coffin »

Really nice to see it coming together Pete.
Looks very good, hope the display goes well.

paul
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

Thanks, guys.. well, I promised more photos today, this time there are 7 as I try to take various shots down the length of the model plus a couple closer up. I didn't manage to get the smokebox and boiler back on today as hoped but I have been busy nonetheless. Job's done are to finish off the cab side sheets where the draincock and gravity sander bolts go through, these have now all been filled, sanded, and primed. Unlike today there are very few bolts/rivets showing on the outside of the side sheets other than the row below the windows which hold the window runners on. Today, FS seems to be plastered with extra bolts/rivets all over the cab, she was much more a speed machine with little sticking out during the first 15 years of her career. I also painted the steam sander filler tubes which I'll fit tomorrow. I have now fitted most of the small hex 10BA bolts that hold the front running boards on, I haven't fitted all of the 10 BA CSK screws down the length of the running boards yet, I'll leave those until last in case I run out of time. The nameplates have been refitted and for the first time, the now painted/lined cylinder cladding sheets have been fitted. I have touched in some of the marked paintwork but still have more to go, most of the black is done in the various depths of satin shine, there are 3 different levels of satin on the model. I have included a close-up of the nameplate, not to show the plate so much but to point out the brass trim, here you can see how it's not wide enough to cover the splasher trim. My fault as briefed yesterday, all is in hand though and Ed (MEL) will get them sorted once he's back from hols, at least the photo gives an idea of how it will look when fitted with the correct sized trim. All being well I hope to have the boiler refitted tomorrow, we shall see...🙂

NB: It seems that I wasn't paying attention when fitting the nameplate, I'll straighten it up tomorrow.


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Pete
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

Morning all.. this isn't today's planned pictures.. this was in response to a couple of questions from a fellow ME down under and I thought others may be thinking the same thing, so I've copied/pasted my reply to here.
Don's design is more or less a true miniature of full size, both in looks/design and in how the various parts work, the lubricators are an example which I'll cover at the end with some pictures. Due to the complexity of this model and my limited time in this world I have tried to build it where I don't need to keep taking things apart, or at least to greatly reduce this. If I had got her to the running stage without first making all of the brake and sanding gear it would have made things much more time-consuming. As an example, the gravity sanders had to be done before the cylinders and their slide bars were fitted, it made sense to also make all of the rod linkages to the cab at the same time and test. The same goes for the steam sanders, vacuum brakes etc. This has a knock-on effect, such as the cab needed to be at least made to a basic stage which it currently is. there are so many parts (all working) to the model that it gets a little bewildering sometimes. I would love to have it running on air, I am getting closer but still have a fair bit to do first, the lubricator drive arm and connecting rods being such an item.
Yes, the boiler will be fed by two injectors, there are no handpumps or axle pumps on this model. There will, however, be a backup water feed method. The boiler will be filled via an electric HP 12v pump. Not only will this fill the boiler from empty pretty quickly but it will also be an emergency method of replenishing the water if both injectors fail, the pump will be capable of overcoming 130 PSI which gives a good safety margin against the working boiler pressure of 100 PSI.
Finally the lubricators and whether any provision has already been made for them, You'll be happy to learn the answer is yes, I'll post a few pictures to show where we are and how things will work.
First up is a picture of where the forward lubricator sits, I have placed one of Adam's superb castings to give a general idea of how it will look. This will be a fully working lubricator, I'll work out the internal design later. This sits exactly where it does on the prototype and will be connected to the valve gear in the same way. A few things to point out, the front lubricator sits very close to the gravity sander linkage, also in this picture, you can see the 10 BA CSK screws which are practical, all the others are sealed, this makes future maintenance much easier although still a lot of work if needed to remove the running boards etc. These particular screws will be changed for newly painted items on final assembly. bTW this particular lubricator will feed the 3 cylinders, as per full size

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Next is the rear lubricator position, this one will feed the 3 main driving axle boxes, their axles and horns, again, as per full size. The slot to the front is for the operating arm to drop down through to connect to the rod linkage below. Also of note here is the close proximity of the steam sander filler neck, I secure its lid later, it's already made.

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Lastly, a close up of the spigot that's part of the R/H expansion link shaft, the drive arm will fit this spigot and have two connecting rods from it to the two lubricators fore and aft of this position.

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Hope that answers all questions...🙂
Pete
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

Today's reassembly progress, nearly ready for the weekend event.

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Pete
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

Reassembly continues.. only one photo worth showing today but it does mean another tick in a box. After having a great day at the club, after returning home I found a couple of hours tonight to do a little more. I had to remove the upper running boards as I had forgotten to screw the saddle down, it's a pretty tight fit anyway but playing safe I have fitted a couple of screws on either side for peace of mind. After replacing the boards I then fitted the main steam pipe covers, as with most of the other reassembled parts I have only used a few screws.. no point in a total screw down as it's all got to come off again. I also paid a little more attention to the cab, I thought it would be a nice touch to give the roof a coat of satin black, it will be redone properly when I finish the cab (lots of detail work to be done there still) but it adds a little definition to the cab rather than just grey all over. Things are looking promising for Saturday, the weather is a concern as although the motion has been oiled the model is far from protected from the elements. George the organiser for this year has kindly offered to find a place for the model up at the station where it will be under cover. The added bonus to this idea is that it won't get covered in ash like in previous years from sitting in the steam bay all day...:)
with this, in mind I may take the display track to sit it on, we shall see.
So jobs lefty to do tomorrow, fit the cab and connect the two cab levers to their various cables/rods, clean the tender (not touch for a few years and very dusty) touch in a few gloss black marks on the wheel centre's and lastly give the entire model a clean...I think that's everything...:)

Photo for tonight is to show the main steam pipe cover fitted, I have, of course, chosen the R/H side with the ejector elbow for added interest.

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Pete
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

Good afternoon guys.. well, the loco is now ready for tomorrow, and on a plus note, the weather now looks much better than had been threatened, there's even some sun so should be able to get some properly lit photos. I have taken some photos with the tender sharing the stand, a good test of its strength if nothing else.
The last photo in this group shows the loco hoisted by its lifting rig ready to be lowered onto its traveling board. I have done this a good few times now but still get nervous at this stage, rightly so as each time the model is getting heavier. I would guess her to be approx 200lbs now, perhaps a little more. You may recall that when weighed on the scales without her boiler and other parts missing she weighed in at 148lb, the boiler must be at least 50 lbs, I suspect more as she's more heavily built than the drawing, ie, larger tubes and thicker upper tubeplate sections etc, plus all the extra bronze bushes. Having said that the lifting rig will handle more than twice that weight but it doesn't stop me from getting a little twitchy...🙂

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And another video to bore you all...:)

https://youtu.be/_yR-k0WVUFc

Pete
burnie
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by burnie »

Stunning, you have the patience of a serious engineer, hope you are feeling well these days.
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

burnie wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:06 pm Stunning, you have the patience of a serious engineer, hope you are feeling well these days.
Thanks, Burnie... I'm ok.... it seems things will not improve so I will just carry on the best I can. I am feeling a little stronger though so there's life in the old dog yet...:)

Kind regards

Pete
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kimballthurlow
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by kimballthurlow »

Hi Pete,
From this photo from a previous post I can see various cross members within the frames.
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I was wondering if you can explain from this picture please how the boiler is cradled and supported in the running gear.
I understand from your other posts that the smokebox end of the boiler is an air-tight fit within the smoke box ring.
Is it also secured there somehow?

I hope your Saturday display goes well. And your strength keeps improving.

regards
Kimball
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

Hi Kimball

Thanks for the question...not easy to explain from this picture, I'll try to post some pictures tonight to show how the boiler sits, can't do so now as the loco is in the van and I'm about to set off. The tube plate end is a good fit into the smokebox, it needs to be for the smokebox to hold a vacuum. There won't be any mechanical fixing, it will just be pushed in and then have some high temp plumbers flue silicone to seal it. At the firebox end there are two stays that the foundation ring sits on, neither can be seen properly in the photo. There's the boiler stay which is positioned where the mainframes drop down in height, the front of the firebox rests on this pretty substantial box constructed stay. The back of the foundation ring rests on the rear stay which is a single steel sheet which is angled back at the top ( has a formed bend) That,s basically it, there are no fixings 'per se' although I have made a plate which I can bolt the boiler down at the back for transport. The boiler can't be secured as it expands, full size this is 2- 3 inches, model terms it's probably no more than 1/8 th.. All of the stays seen in the picture are as per full size.

Hope that explains a lityle...I'll try to post pictures later

Cheers

Pete
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

hi again Kimball

I have taken the two pictures as promised, still not easy to see but if you look back in my blog the various stays are shown during construction.

This is the boiler stay on which the front of the foundation ring sits, you can see the outside 90 degrees upright which supports the curved section of the funning board as it drops down to run along the side of the firebox. In this picture, the boiler may be sitting a little high as I have a steel plate sandwiched between it and the stay. From what I can see in reference photos there's a wooden strip that the boiler sits on here in place of my steel strip, I'll work out at a later date the exact thickness this needs to be.
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In this photo, I have tried to show the rear stay but it's pretty well hidden under the boiler and in front of the draw pin block. As stated in the last post, the stay is angled back from roughly where you can see the pin block and up under the foundation ring.

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Hope this helps to answer your question?

Pete
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

although the weather was against us and we all got wet, it did clear a little later long enough for a few pictures in natural daylight. Early morning and it looked pretty bleak as to how many may turn up and i wouldn't blame them but they are a hardy lot and we had a good number of engines running. Anyway, here's 3 of FS basking in the sun after her soaking despite the valiant efforts of all around to keep her dry. Thank you to all concerned...🙂

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Pete
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

I took a short video yesterday to show that sanders do work in 5" gauge even when the weather was terrible, very damp/wet.

Please forgive the poor quality and bad (short cut) commentary... I forget that I can't do things like stand up and talk together these days...lol

https://youtu.be/OQsVtC7pFZY

Pete
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kimballthurlow
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by kimballthurlow »

greenglade wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:05 pm hi again Kimball

I have taken the two pictures as promised,.....

Hope this helps to answer your question?

Pete
Hello Pete

Thanks for the day out description.
A nice touch is the tail-light at the rear of the tender. :!:

Your previous post text description and these photos all make perfect sense.
Thank you.
I am dismantling my 3 1/2" gauge #1463 and cannot quite make out the boiler suport method.
Superfically it appears similar, and removal of the running plate should make it clearer.

I also studied the photos starting Page 1, and there is a good one of the cab erection which shows the box support at the firebox end.

It is interesting that the real FS should use a wood support "mattress" under the firebox foundation ring. Nothing surprizes me.
Thinking further it is probably one of the components that required replacement at what might be termed a heavy overhaul.

regards
Kimball
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greenglade
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Re: 5" gauge model of 4472 Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade »

Hi Kimball

I say wood as that's what it looked like in an old photo during an overhaul in preservation. If I can remember where the photo is I'll post it.
My 3 1/2 gauge 4470 Great Northern has two sliding plates, one either side of the firebox. IIRC it's just some right angle which hooks under a strip of steel down each side of the trailing frames. This allows the boiler to expand freely..

Regards

Pete
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