Bachmann V2 release update

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davidwest
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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Re: Bachmann V2 release update

Post by davidwest »

If there are heavy discounts I wonder even then If I'd bother.
Like Simon I've GRK bodies. I'll go to the MJT 3D print for the additional replacements I'll need
S.A.C. Martin
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Bachmann V2 release update

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

A closer look at the pics on Rails of Sheffield today confirms a few things to me:
  • The smokebox is wrong by virtue of the thick smokebox door/rivet placement on the smokebox, which looks awful
  • Fit of the cab is awful
  • Valve gear is a modified version of the "chassis upgrade" older model I think
  • Tender to loco coupling looks interesting
  • Odd plate at the joint between the cab and boiler where the V shape meets
    This represents no improvement on the G.R. King kits - frankly, Graeme - you need to get your moulds out and ready again I think! The Mike Trice alternative is also superior on a good chassis.

    Not quite sure how Bachmann have managed to make such a hash of the V2 retool. The new bodyshell has so many issues that you can't really fix without major surgery, particularly on the rivetted versions.

    There are some lovely touches too - the buffers both in front of and behind the bufferbeam - the new cylinder moulding for the front of the cylinders, where they have the conjugated gear - also lovely - the cab detail is exquisite - so frustrating from my POV. Put simply - the recent Thompson A2/3 nailed it, Bachmann's V2 is hit and miss.
    Hatfield Shed
    LNER A3 4-6-2
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by Hatfield Shed »

    Unfortunately there seems to be a current fashion for mucking with perfectly satisfactory and simple loco to tender linkages, substituting unnecessarily elaborate multiway connectors. (It's the one blot on the Stirling single, a vast blob which shouts 'discard, discard and replace with a better arrangement, and trim back the resulting oversize fall plate while about it'. The tender is spaced off so distant that on the one RTR OO model that has softly sprung intermediate buffers on the tender dragbox, these cannot ever contact the loco dragbox!)

    Bachmann have long been the champions for getting this right, a simple metal strip through the dragboxes which I first saw on the WD 2-8-0: in the right location and readily adjusted if the hole spacings didn't provide for scale separation. Subsequently further enhanced by a screw locked slide concealed under the tender which made distance adjustment about as simple as it can possibly be.

    So what's with this great lump in the wrong position? Poor move. Have to wait and see on spacing adjustment. I am going to buy one, can't operate the ECML short of V2s, and most of my RTR gets hacked about a bit, so nothing unusual about making adjustments and alterations.
    davidwest
    GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by davidwest »

    Sadly with models costing £200 + should we expect to muck about with models.

    I seriously wish Hornby would have taken a crack at it.

    I've been shouted down over there. (Rmweb land). I've waited in hope of a good V2 for ages. Comet chassis and 3d printed bodies look like they will be the way for a long time.
    mick b
    LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by mick b »

    BACHMAN V2.         824_r2080a.jpg.b730e1341ff167332967ad9fe4671ae7.jpg
    Sums it up nicely. The front end isn't much better !! Oversize or undersize in many aspects of the detail.

    RM Web strange love affair with makers ?,no matter what is produced and its full of adverts !!
    Hatfield Shed
    LNER A3 4-6-2
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by Hatfield Shed »

    mick b wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:21 pm...RM Web strange love affair with makers ?,no matter what is produced and its full of adverts !
    Once acquired by a UK magazine, the 'standard' policy of a favourable disposition toward advertisers - actual and potential - has inevitably played a role.
    davidwest wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm Sadly with models costing £200 + should we expect to muck about with models. I seriously wish Hornby would have taken a crack at it...
    For some of us it's a case of don't care about manufacturer or the price (provided that I can afford it, and what it offers appears worth the money) mucking about with it is going to happen! There's always something to do, even if it is just the number (Bachmann haven't managed 'Bronzino' or 'Velocity' from the 15 in class Pepp A2, so not a prayer on 184 V2's...).
    S.A.C. Martin
    LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by S.A.C. Martin »

    I have said privately to Simon Kohler and Paul Isles (at the time, he was with Hornby) that the Gresley V2 was an open goal. Given the issues of the Bachmann one, Hornby with their R&D and standard LNER components could very easily do a V2 very quickly.

    Not often I ever clamour for duplication but it's entirely necessary in this case just to get a decent, accurate model to market. It's mad that despite all of the feedback (and I directly expressed my concerns about the rivets, for one, amongst other issues, over a year ago) that the production run is coming out as it is.

    Mick's point about RMweb is salient - but that's been true for a long time. I dare say many of us won't forget the DJ Models saga in a hurry, and I personally lay at RMweb's door a great deal of blame for that, which ended with a large number of its own members out of pocket on a number of promises. But then we did warn them at the time: it is down to key management of that forum that the warnings largely went unheeded.

    May I say though - separate out BRM from RMweb for ire. I tend to think the magazine is far more balanced and responsible than the forum.
    Last edited by S.A.C. Martin on Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    davidwest
    GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by davidwest »

    Duplication.

    Who'd have thought Hornby would have gone head to head with Bachmann on the 9f and others. They intend to dominate.
    The 9f (bachmann) is almost 15 years old. I wouldn't be surprised if a Super detailed A1 was on the cards.

    Where does that leave the V2? Well we can keep asking. :)
    Last edited by davidwest on Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Woodcock29
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by Woodcock29 »

    Agree with most of the points above.
    Interestingly on the other site Mike Trice has pointed out that there is in fact some form of strip on the front of the cab V adjacent to the firebox on a V2. Also looking closely at photos I've taken of A4 cabs you can see there is a strip (as shown below when you look closely) but its much finer than what Bachmann have portrayed.

    I still expect to get the LNER version though despite the issues, at least I won't have the oversize wrongly placed rivets on the smokebox. Don't like the look of the coupling between engine and tender though - think I'll need to replace it with a simple bar of some form and hard wire it. As Hatfield Shed says there's always something to change on RTR models. After all we are modellers.

    Andrew
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    Hatfield Shed
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by Hatfield Shed »

    davidwest wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:59 pm Duplication. Who'd have thought Hornby would have gone head to head with Bachmann on the 9f and others...
    And they are most welcome to, on the overall evidence of significantly raising their game on introductions of steam models over the past decade. Which has been confirmed as a necessary move, given the number of competitors that have emerged over that time. I expect Hornby's management have been taking a hard look at their proven best sellers, with a view to prioritising which get the 'better yet' treatment to dissuade any competitor from trying a bite.
    davidwest
    GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by davidwest »

    Hatfield Shed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:36 pm
    davidwest wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:59 pm Duplication. Who'd have thought Hornby would have gone head to head with Bachmann on the 9f and others...
    And they are most welcome to, on the overall evidence of significantly raising their game on introductions of steam models over the past decade. Which has been confirmed as a necessary move, given the number of competitors that have emerged over that time. I expect Hornby's management have been taking a hard look at their proven best sellers, with a view to prioritising which get the 'better yet' treatment to dissuade any competitor from trying a bite.
    Absolutely agree...
    davidwest
    GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by davidwest »

    Hatfield Shed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:24 pm
    mick b wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:21 pm...RM Web strange love affair with makers ?,no matter what is produced and its full of adverts !
    Once acquired by a UK magazine, the 'standard' policy of a favourable disposition toward advertisers - actual and potential - has inevitably played a role.
    davidwest wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm Sadly with models costing £200 + should we expect to muck about with models. I seriously wish Hornby would have taken a crack at it...
    For some of us it's a case of don't care about manufacturer or the price (provided that I can afford it, and what it offers appears worth the money) mucking about with it is going to happen! There's always something to do, even if it is just the number (Bachmann haven't managed 'Bronzino' or 'Velocity' from the 15 in class Pepp A2, so not a prayer on 184 V2's...).
    Yes I agree here too. Manufacturers have been slow to monopolize on their tooling. Still no maroon Thompsons
    S.A.C. Martin
    LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by S.A.C. Martin »

    I've been forwarded a few comments from RMweb's thread on the V2s. For the benefit of members here, here is the thread:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... ep/page/8/

    I feel, reading some of the posts, that there's a few obvious issues I would take with what's being said.

    Some of the V2's errors - and they are errors - are very, very easily avoided. In fact, just looking at past models that Bachmann have produced from the LNER (Peppercorn A1 and A2 - the latter a relatively recent addition to the range) could have prevented some of the errors.

    The one which stands out most to me is the line of rivets on the smokebox, which are in the wrong place, when combined with the thick smokebox door plug in. They look a scale two or three inches back from the edge of the smokebox as a result of the smokebox door plug in, and conversely, the smokebox now appears to be too long as a result of this same issue.

    Image

    On the Bachmann A1 and A2 the smokebox door is a much thinner affair and sits flush with the smokebox.

    Image

    We can also see that the window surrounds - which are brass coloured and very prominent on the LNER's large locos - have been moulded and painted accordingly on the A2 and thus look the part. The Bachmann V2 has these completely missing.

    Yes, we're modellers - but these two specific items are key to getting the look right and Bachmann have done this sort of design and R&D before. Incredibly both of these areas look better on the original model, despite the width of the boiler/smokebox being too wide on that model.

    There's so many great things about the new model, but I am not prepared to send £200 on it when such basics are wrong. The Railroad P2, for all its flaws, was at least correct in all major dimensions and the price was good, for example - and this isn't.
    john coffin
    LNER P2 2-8-2
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by john coffin »

    Once again, I am bemused by people claiming to be able to tell from photographs of a PROTOTYPE, that it is or is not correct.
    the essence of manufacture is to check the faults before production.

    Secondly, I guess because I am older, I always thought that a Private Conversation was supposed to be just that private.

    As for the strip around the cab/firebox intersection. Do you really never study the prototype???
    ALL locomotives need some kind of flexible coupling between the cab and the firebox to allow for expansion
    and to cover that since probably the first spectacle plate was installed, an angle iron was included, and
    this is in fact what is visible on the model photos that I can see.

    Paul
    S.A.C. Martin
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    Re: Bachmann V2 release update

    Post by S.A.C. Martin »

    john coffin wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:47 pm Once again, I am bemused by people claiming to be able to tell from photographs of a PROTOTYPE, that it is or is not correct.
    the essence of manufacture is to check the faults before production.
    Paul, they're not prototypes anymore. They're in production. These are production samples:

    https://railsofsheffield.com/blogs/news ... ocomotives
    We are pleased to share more images of our forthcoming exclusive newly tooled Bachmann Class V2 steam locomotives!

    Expected in stock November 2021, these amazing looking locomotives are available to pre-order now both DCC Ready and DCC Sound fitted.....
    john coffin wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:47 pmSecondly, I guess because I am older, I always thought that a Private Conversation was supposed to be just that private.
    What private conversation, where? Forums are public resources and both this one and RMweb are publicly viewable.
    john coffin wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:47 pmAs for the strip around the cab/firebox intersection. Do you really never study the prototype???
    ALL locomotives need some kind of flexible coupling between the cab and the firebox to allow for expansion
    and to cover that since probably the first spectacle plate was installed, an angle iron was included, and
    this is in fact what is visible on the model photos that I can see.

    Paul
    The strip is far too heavy on the Bachmann model and looks odd, which is why others have taken issue with it. I personally don't like it much either, which is why I said the following:
    S.A.C. Martin wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:09 am
    • Odd plate at the joint between the cab and boiler where the V shape meets
    Which I stand by, because looking at the real thing and the model together you can see how much thicker it is on the production model than the real thing. It looks odd, and the fitment of the cab is therefore out as well.
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