Quicksilver's Workbench

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Hatfield Shed
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Hatfield Shed »

Quicksilver95 wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:32 pm ...One thing I'm experimenting with is the use of the Symoba close coupling posts which increase the distance between vehicles on curves but reduce it on straights. These are in use on the articulation bogies and hopefully should allow a more prototypical gap between vehicles whilst allowing them to traverse off-scene train set curves. All seems well at the moment, but I am wondering what would be the best arrangement when adding corridor gangways. The current school of thought is to use paper bellows with magnets to secure them to the doorways. This should hopefully prevent any fouling but also allow easy separation of the vehicles...
I haven't used the Symoba units, but if these work equivalently to the Keen and commercially fitted close coupling systems you should be able to space the body ends at prototype separation on straight track. I would suggest attaching the gangway bellows permanently to one body end and magnet to the other body, less risk of displacement. The off centre gangway aspect is tricky. Now, if you can always run the set so that the gangway is on the outside of your minimum radius curves, matters are much simpler...

My sleeper twin articulation is simple pivots, no camming action. Since the only viewing is on straight or very nearly so track, it is sufficient to have shallow rigid gangway representations, one narrower on the outside edge so that they 'nest' on the outside edge, with a fold of black paper between as a light block. That does very well for my requirements, but the smallest radius they work on is 36", both directions.
Quicksilver95
NER J27 0-6-0
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Quicksilver95 »

Thanks both. I'll let you know how I get on when there's more progress to show! As usual, other projects have distracted me!

Joshua
Quicksilver95
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Quicksilver95 »

A new project! One day I will get round to finishing something! After having tested the abilities of the silhouette cutter on some fairly square wagons, I decided it was time for something a little less orthodox. I'd been contemplating the idea of something with a clerestory for a while, so I dug out the Ken Hole ECJS book and put together some CAD for ECJS dia 14, of which no 12 is now preserved at the NRM.

Plenty of iteration to get to this stage, but I now have a rolling chassis. Still need to complete the bowed ends and the roof, but now starting to resemble the prototype at least!

IMG_6208.JPG
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IMG_6216.JPG

One issue has arisen, with which I am unsure how to proceed. The photo of ECJS no 12 as seen on P83 of the Ken Hoole book seems to show the carriage having smaller LNER type torpedo vents on top of the clerestory section of roof as restored in 1952. This is in direct contrast to the restored carriage in the NRM, which has larger GNR-type ventilators, but situated on the "lower roof". See my own photo from a couple of years ago.

DSC_0182.JPG

I know the vehicle was restored at Carnforth in the late 20th Century. I assume the ventilators were moved then, but what was the reason for this? Was it restoration to "original condition", or was it to allow clearance in the loading gauge by reducing overall height? I am attempting to model this carriage as was in the 1930s - any idea what is correct?

Thanks,

Joshua
Woodcock29
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Woodcock29 »

Suggest you have a look at Graeme King's thread to see what he did on the ones he built which were for 1930s. I think.there is an index of subjects somewhere at the beginning.
Andrew
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Take care. After building my ECJS clerestory restaurant cars I found that in following the Isinglass drawing and the ex-works photograph I had fitted one vehicle with far too many roof vents for 1930s condition.
I now believe that, in connection I presume with the change from gas and oil lighting to cleaner electric lighting, the necessary number of ventilators reduced, and perhaps in connection with the Great War various carriages had their clerestory glazing replaced by, or covered by plain boards, long term.
I can certainly see why loading gauge would influence things too if carriages were transferred to other areas and duties. The GNR and NER main line (and through to Edinburgh?) had about 13' 6" height available and pre-group luxury stock for the prestigious services was built to fully exploit this. For later work on lesser routes in various areas the carriages would have to conform to lower limits.
Electrification, modernization and later civil engineering on a minimum cost basis seems to me to have done nothing but reduce the loading gauge for UK stock.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
Manxman1831
NER C7 4-4-2
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Manxman1831 »

Graeme is quite right. With the switch over from gas to electric lighting, the large vents that would have been above the lighting positions would have been removed - the holes left behind being either plugged or plated over (if done on the cheap the roofing material may not have been replaced). The other thing he is most correct about is the reduction in loading gauge by the various iterations of British Railways infrastructure. I stumbled upon the loading gauge measurements for the old Great Western mainline to Bristol, which quoted the loading gauge as having a minimum height of 13'6", dated about 1910. Fast forward to the recent electrification works, and the loading gauge has been reduced to 12'6" - it would appear that between the placing of the wires and the raising of the trackbed by not removing old ballast before new went in, has been the order of the day to cut costs.
Brian

Anything weird or unusual will catch my interest, be it an express or locomotive

I'm also drawn to the commemorative, let's hope Bachmann will produce 6165 Valour.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Perhaps the saving grace with regard to the possibility of getting the vents wrong on the former GNR / ECJS type stock is that different things appear to have been done to various vehicles (sometimes of the same original type) for a variety of reasons, and there is as far as I know no complete record or system of rules on which you can rely - nor can anybody else and few if any can now remember the pre-1939 condition of individual carriages, if they ever took any notice in the first place. So if you cannot find photographs of the exact vehicle to confirm or to guide you, it should be reasonably safe to apply the best logic that you can based on an known general trends, or failing that, your best guess!
Of course, only when you have lovingly finished the model to a high standard are you are certain to find that you have, or some wise guy has, a photograph to prove you completely wrong, but if you don't take any decisions about uncertain details you'll never finish the model.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
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nzpaul
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by nzpaul »

Finer points of detail aside, that's an exceptional looking coach.

Paul
Quicksilver95
NER J27 0-6-0
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Quicksilver95 »

Thanks all for the comments and help. I'll do some more digging on the vents. Presumably if gas lighting was removed then the vehicle would also be fitted with battery boxes?

I'm sure I'm going to have great fun working out underframe details...
Manxman1831
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Manxman1831 »

That's right. When the lighting was changed over, you'd find battery boxes and a dynamo in place of the gas tank(s) underneath. Again, if done on the cheap, the new wiring may have been fed through the existing pipes for the gas lamps, though I have seen no pictures to support that the LNER, or its constituents, carried out that practise. I do expect to be proven wrong on that score.

The piccy below shows how I've squeezed two lots of battery boxes, the brake cylinders and dynamo onto two of my 45ft GCR Parkers - not alot of room to play with under there.
Attachments
DSC_0434resized.jpg
Brian

Anything weird or unusual will catch my interest, be it an express or locomotive

I'm also drawn to the commemorative, let's hope Bachmann will produce 6165 Valour.
Quicksilver95
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:24 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Quicksilver95 »

A new project on the go at the moment. Building one of Mike Trice's Shapeways GNR six wheelers. After a lot of tweaking, I am now happy with the running quality.

IMG_6332 copy.JPG

The next question that I am turning to is livery. By the period I am modelling (1937), is it likely that the carriage would have retained a genuine varnished teak finish, or would it have certainly been "teak paint" by this point? Obviously those restored for the 1938 Scotsman event went back into varnished teak, but was this something that was found on general use stock?

Thanks,

Joshua
jwealleans
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by jwealleans »

Not always easy to tell, but at the very least a significant proportion of the survivors were still varnished. I'd suspect that the carriage would fall to bits and be condemned before the panelling was too far gone to be bleached and revarnished.
drmditch

Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by drmditch »

ECJS No.12 (currently at Locomotion, Shildon) still has gas tanks in place.
I took some pictures a few weeks ago for my own purposes.
If you like I can to edit them sufficiently to post on here.
Quicksilver95
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Quicksilver95 »

That would be appreciated. This prototype is one of the other Dia 14s which I have assumed had its gas lighting removed, but I'm hoping to model no12 next.

Thanks,

Joshua
Quicksilver95
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Quicksilver95 »

It's been a while since the latest update on here. Quite a lot of progress has been made on a variety of projects.

The 1928 RTS is externally mostly complete. More work is required on the interior however:

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The GNR 6W Full Brake is complete:

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The ECJS Dia 14 TK has made some progress. The first carriage is complete, and I am mid way through a second prototype. This has involved re-working the CAD file to deal with some design flaws and issues with the silhouette cutting process. Seen part complete below:

IMG_6491 copy.JPG

More recently, I have jumped on the Barnum bandwagon, after a chance meeting with Alan Rose at Ruddington. Whilst they had been on my radar, seeing the kit in the flesh persuaded me to cough up, and it has been a fun, mostly quick build. One modification I have made is to allow the carriage to traverse 2nd radius curves. With my layout still at the planning stage, I can't guarantee there won't be any tighter curves in the non-scenic area, so wanted to modify the kit against such a possibility. Mostly this just involved filing large amounts of material from the underframe and solebars, but now works fine. Just glazing, buffers, and handrails to sort now:

IMG_6854 copy.JPG



Joshua
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