2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

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65447
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2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by 65447 »

After an absence due to Covid and the untimely passing of Glen Woods of the Poll Team, the Wishlist Poll returns but only for 4mm ('OO') scale models.

To save repetition, details here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/175961-th ... nt-5012172

Voting opens on Monday 12 December.

The 2019 full results are in the attached PDF - you will be able to see what was most requested and what was produced.

Hatfield Shed
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Hatfield Shed »

Thanks in advance for the copious work that this involves for the team, it's a welcome initiative, and on past evidence has had influence on the oft incomprehensible decisions of 'The Selectors'.
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Brian Macdermott »

Many thanks 65447 and Hatfield Shed

Just to advise that The Poll is now 'live' and awaiting your votes. If I can help in any way, please let me know.

Enjoy the voting!

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Brian Macdermott »

Hello again everyone

I forgot to mention that if you access www.rmweb.co.uk, you should find a link to The Poll at the top of the page in the banner headline area.

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Has any thought been given to adding a facility to make the "wishes" in these polls conditional, with an option to specify either an easily affordable model (with reasonable detail, amenable to super-detailing by those inclined to make an effort) or an ultra-detailed item even if it comes at an excruciating price?
I see no point in wishing for an opportunity to buy items without knowing the likely quality / price.
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Brian Macdermott »

Hello Atlantic 3279

The Poll Team has had various 'extras' in The Poll over the years and ran 'surveys' on the erstwhile MREmag.

As far as The Poll is concerned, we have found that 'extras' simply make our work doubly hard for virtually no result - so we agreed that we would stick to 'core content'. Part of The Poll's 'appeal' is that it is easy to take part in, considering we have 640+ items listed

I'm afraid we can't answer your question about quality and price.

Many models nowadays are superb in running quality and way beyond what they were even a few years ago. But prices have risen, too!

Quality and value-for-money decisions are up to the prospective purchaser.

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Thanks. I realise that nobody can guarantee final prices, but it ought to be of some interest to potential manufacturers to know what quality / cost of product is wanted by those who appear to want one, but who may not buy if doesn't meet their expectations.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Brian Macdermott »

Hello again Atlantic 3279

I have just taken a look back at the MREmag survey archive.

I attach the results of one such survey - hopefully, it will show how complex even the simplest of ideas can become and why we stick to 'core content'.

Note that we didn't 'define the definitions'. If we were to say in The Poll about 'ultra-detailed', we would immediately be asked for a definition. If we provided such, people would simply come back and say... "but you forgot to include x which to me is the most important facet". And so it would go on! :roll:

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)
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Results of the What's Your View Survey.pdf
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Brian Macdermott »

Hello again Atlantic 3279

Sorry...posts crossed in the ether!

We don't run The Poll for the makers; we run it for modellers to see how we are collectively thinking and to let makers know what we would realistically buy.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Thanks. Yes, I wasn't suggesting that the poll should be for the makers' benefit, merely thinking that if the makers happened to pay any attention to the poll results then it would be of more benefit to potential buyers if there were some sort of indication of what balance of cost vs. quality the potential buyers required.
Fair enough if that makes the poll to complicated to run.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
exile
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by exile »

But surely each of the manufacturers will already have their views on what their customers want in terms of quality/fidelity/price.

Based on that they will be able to establish which potential models fit their profile - and that can include inclusivity to their current range. Each may reach very different conclusion about the viability of the same model.

Really I think they each have enough market intelligence that a muddied picture of whether we want more or less detail for lower or higher prices. I say this because I would predict that there would be a majority for maximum fidelity at minimum price if the survey were run on that basis. It's just human nature.
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Brian Macdermott »

Many thanks exile and Atlantic 3279

It is always somewhat difficult for me to have to say that we can't take on well-meaning suggestions but The Team knows from experience that the 'core content' route is the only practical way for us to run.

It was once suggested that we ought to have a tick box for which livery voters wanted. But just think how many liveries there are!

One well-meaning person suggested we ought to have an open box where people could write in their suggestions. He gave his own example...but the item he suggested had never actually existed! He gave a Southern Railway Diagram Number that he thought was appropriate but it wasn't. Imagine what time we would take sifting all those types of suggestion! :shock:

We are, of course, happy to take suggestions but most won't be taken up for good reason.

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by Hatfield Shed »

From the customer position, all you can do is only buy items that meet your requirements, and let the shopkeep know why you have left the all singing and dancing 'latest model' on the shelf, due to whatever deficiencies you perceive.
exile wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:59 pm ...Really I think they (brand managements) each have enough market intelligence...
I think not. Recurrent basic mistakes like insufficient weight in proportion to the prototype's tractive capability, poor motor and gear ratio selection, inadequate pick up arrangements, poorly executed coupling systems; repeatedly lumber into view. The external accuracy and appearance is mostly OK, provided that someone with good colour vision is in place when the paint samples are approved...

The annoyance aspect is that there is now proven capability to deliver RTR OO models to the standard of an expert kit or scratch builder and painter, which really only need the owner's choice of dirt application, real coal and other characteristic 'loose tackle' details added; but all too often it's a case of fine exterior appearance, but now we have to dismantle some of it to overcome mechanism shortcomings.

I would like some method of persuading the brands, that there is a market for 'all around done well', at a premium price. Somewhat hopeful of Hornby, whose metal bodied main range steam locos are an advance, waiting for their H-D range to include a double kylchap A4 to see how that fares...
exile
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by exile »

I should have underlined the "their market " bit of my post.

The question is, is 2-3000 customers buying as collectors, who are barely aware there is a motor in it, or as people who can only run 4-5 coach trains on set track curves their market? Or is their market the 200 - at best - of us who can run scale length trains?

I don't think it needs deep analysis to work out where Hornby are on this.
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Re: 2022 - The 4mm scale Wishlist Poll returns, hosted by RMweb, Opens 12 December

Post by kimballthurlow »

Hatfield Shed wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:41 am ... a market for 'all around done well', at a premium price. Somewhat hopeful of Hornby, whose metal bodied main range steam locos are an advance, waiting for their H-D range to include a double kylchap A4 to see how that fares...
You are probably correct.
Model trains = Money, and there is no getting away from it.
Most of us cut our suit acccording to our cloth.
In our early days we made do with fewer models, or kit-bashing or second-hand, or scratchbuilding.

In later life I for one have really enjoyed the quality of modern Märklin models from Germany, with metal loco bodies and complete accessory availability.
As a result I searched for an English equivalent, and the discovered Hornby Dublo (1949-64) has given me a similar pleasure.
In that regard I limit my purchases to pre-nationalisation LNER which is why I follow this online group.
I too look forward to re-issues.
(Rant mode) - Some modern Hornby do come with metal bodies. I wrote to them a few years ago and asked why they did not advertise that feature so I could make a choice - it is a BIG DEAL for me. I cannot go to a hobby shop and check, on which subject Hornby are forging ahead in an attempt to make them disappear.
Their answer said something like it was not one of the specification criteria for marketing purposes!
Maybe they were frightened of falling sales in plastic bodies locos.

Kimball
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