Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I've sent him a private message to try to make him aware of your question. Cross your fingers.
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Paul_sterling
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Paul_sterling »

Hi Tony.

Sorry yes I'm still about, not posted much lately, but been steadily printing shells as and when people enquire.

So yes I can print a j21 as you need, I've changed to 4k printer now so I'll have to create new files, golden opportunity to do so.

Thanks. Paul.
Flit
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Flit »

Hi Paul,

My area is bounded by the Borders line to the north, and Bedale Hawes to the south, so much J21 territory, especially Kirby Stephen to Darlington and the Weardale line.

I'm Era 3 but do not know what variations or modifications the J21 had through that period. I suppose the J21s at the Kirby Stephen shed would be a pretty good template for what I am aiming to run, so variations on that theme.

I don't know if the 52F chassis/powertrain fits the shells, but it seems that ought to be a pretty good combination.

cheers

Tony

Thanks for the PM 3279 !
Paul_sterling
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Paul_sterling »

Hi Tony.

I dont know for sure if it will fit, because the J21 shell was engineered around the Bachmann c class chassis. However, kit built chassis are generally leaner and more compact than rtr chassis so I'd think it possible.

The motor needs to be slender, that is a key one.

In terms of detail, the forms listed earlier in this thread are the designs I've done. Other variants are possible but will require CAD time to create a new version.

Thanks.
Paul.
Flit
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Flit »

It would definitely make most sense to use the Bachmann C-class for the first one, just to get used to it all. Mind you the 2nd hand price seems to have gone up a fair bit. Could then check the 52F dimensions for 2nd shell.

I'll check and get some numbers so I can identify types, but I'd guess an early one for starters. I think the Stainmore locos all had Westinghouse.
I know there were 5 at KS in 1948.

I'd guess you can PM me with contact details, as I obv can't as a new member, but I think it accepts incoming.
No rush by the way.

cheers

Tony
Last edited by Flit on Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mick b
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by mick b »

I have fitted a 52F chassis to a Nucast body , advertised as fitting easily into a Nucast body , well it didnt without a lot of persuassion. If you need dimensions let us know. It has a 10 series motor fitted.



5C03CF4B-FCAF-4D8F-B1CD-EA010333FA71_4_5005_c.jpeg
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I am not the ultimate authority on these matters, but I believe that as few as five or six approved posts will get a new member over the PM rights threshold.
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drmditch
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by drmditch »

Good Morning
I'm not sure what you mean by 'Era 3'.
(Sorry about that, but I think that dates give us a useful reference anyway!)

The best reference for brakes, superheating, boilers etc is in the RTCS Green Book Part 5.
If you have Yeadon (Vol 47 Part A ) as well, you can work out allocations at different times.

I do have a database set up for all North Eastern Area locomotives in 1947, and am happy to send you a selected spreadsheet if you tell me what you are looking for. I can add details of braking systems, boilers, superheating etc if you don't have access to the reference works.
Flit
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Flit »

Thanks very much for that offer.


Era 3 for me is 1923-48. I'm Pennine Dales oriented, but not exclusively so, as all the branch lines are fascinating, and I love the Borders line too.
I've finally got Yeadon's tomes and I do have partial coverage of green books, so hopefully have better quality information incoming.

The two main classes for me are G5 and J21 on the Pennine branch lines, plus lots of J25s at KS in 47, and it would be good to get them all moreorless right.
The other major gap for me is Sentinel railcars. I see shells are available, but the chassis/bogies/powertrain in OO is a mystery to me.

I'm actually having more problems researching the line architecture, such as details of the dimensions of the Barnard Castle station west platform canopy, similar canopy details but especially facade and electric hoist at Kirby Stephen East and when the trusses on the Tees viaduct were strengthened !!
Thankfully, there is shedfuls of expertise available on the engineering side and loco detailing, but not so much on the architecture.

I've been out of modelling for some years now, and the opportunities 3D printing offer are fantastic, so these J21 shells are a brilliant addition to what is available.

cheers

Tony
Last edited by Flit on Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul_sterling
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Paul_sterling »

Flit wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:31 pm It would definitely make most sense to use the Bachmann C-class for the first one, just to get used to it all. Mind you the 2nd hand price seems to have gone up a fair bit. Could then check the 52F dimensions for 2nd shell.

I'll check and get some numbers so I can identify types, but I'd guess an early one for starters. I think the Stainmore locos all had Westinghouse.
I know there were 5 at KS in 1948.

I'd guess you can PM me with contact details, as I obv can't as a new member, but I think it accepts incoming.
No rush by the way.

cheers

Tony
Hi Tony,


Should be a message in your inbox with details of the shells and ordering bud.

Worth adding that, in general, printed shells can be leaner than metal ones, I know comparing my J21 with a nu-cast kit i had, there was more motor space, and the boiler wall thickness considerably less. Nevertheless, Building (or even buying) a 52F chassis has been a pipedream of mine for years, and having the c-class fit and run as well as it does, means Its even less likely to happen.

Thanks

Paul.
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NZRedBaron
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by NZRedBaron »

drmditch wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:33 am Good Morning
I'm not sure what you mean by 'Era 3'.
(Sorry about that, but I think that dates give us a useful reference anyway!)
It's pretty much as you guessed; Hornby and Bachmann both have a standardised ranking of 'eras' for their models; Era 3 is the 'Big Four Era' (1923-1947)- Era 4 for reference is 'Early British Railways' (1948 to about 1956).
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I wondered if somebody might pick up this subject. The RTR manufacturers' "era" system is misleadingly reduced into far too few "eras" (possibly for commercial convenience and advantage, allowing those who know nothing to recommend and sell unsuitable combinations of items to others who know nothing) and should be ignored completely by anybody attempting to portray railway history even semi-accurately. The start of the grouping era (early to mid 1920s) was not like the middle of the grouping era which in turn was not like the 1945-1948 post war phase. Loco types were different, rolling stock changed, liveries and numbering changed, buildings appeared / disappeared, track layouts changed, working practices evolved / changed. The idea that it is okay to model (buy) anything from any part of "era 3" alongside anything else from "era 3" is total nonsense. There are so many juxtapositions that would be utterly impossible without a time-machine.

It is far more logical and unambiguous to specify an actual span of years.
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Flit
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Flit »

Yes, Era naming does oversimplify, and during Era 3 the war made a lot of difference too.
There is so much marketing done to promote products these days, and historical accuracy is an obvious casualty.
On NE branch lines the conversions of older stock to newer liveries in 1923 was certainly not done overnight, and there can be a lot of latitude in running various bits of NER rolling stock, especially carriages.
Even between 1923-48 in my area the stations were remodelled considerably. Constraints of space then apply too..

I suppose it depends on how true to history we want to be individually, when folks choose fictional locations in order to run their preferred choice of locos and rolling stock.
drmditch
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by drmditch »

Flit wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:56 pm Thanks very much for that offer.
Era 3 for me is 1923-48.
The other major gap for me is Sentinel railcars. I see shells are available, but the chassis/bogies/powertrain in OO is a mystery to me.

I'm actually having more problems researching the line architecture, such as details of the dimensions of the Barnard Castle station west platform canopy, similar canopy details but especially facade and electric hoist at Kirby Stephen East and when the trusses on the Tees viaduct were strengthened !!
Thankfully, there is shedfuls of expertise available on the engineering side and loco detailing, but not so much on the architecture.
Tony
As Atlantic 3279 has already said, 1923-48 in the North Eastern Area of the LNER saw quite a lot of change.
Braking systems - Westinghouse to Vacuum (but some locomotives had vacuum ejectors for train braking, but retained Westinghouse for the loco.
Livery - NER Saxony Green in 1923 (some engines) but then black lined shifting to unlined after 1928 or so.
Numbering - On tender then cabside
Superheating - fitted then removed (and smokebox lengths changing as well.)

Best thing is to find a photograph of a particular locomotive in the condition you like, and then research that!

If you haven't found .....this..... then it might help.

If you enjoy reading and do not mind spending some money on books, there is a lot of published information.
Three volumes of 'North Eastern Railway Architecture', published by NERA
'Darlington and South West Durham', Railway Memories No.11 by Stephen Chapman

Plenty more, and as a great treat:-
'Stainmore and Eden Valley Railways' by Peter Walton.


You might find it worthwhile joining the North Eastern Railway Association (NERA) as well.
Horsetan
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Re: Project 65033 - a 3D printed LNER J21

Post by Horsetan »

Atlantic 3279 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:31 am .....The RTR manufacturers' "era" system is misleadingly reduced into far too few "eras" (possibly for commercial convenience and advantage, allowing those who know nothing to recommend and sell unsuitable combinations of items to others who know nothing) and should be ignored completely by anybody attempting to portray railway history even semi-accurately. ....
The Era system was something initiated and taken up by Continental HO manufacturers, specifically for the German railways. They've been doing it for donkeys' years. It's only in the last decade or so that the British market has adopted it.
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