Robs workbench...in works grey...

[Atlantic 3279]

Fight the good fight Rob, the results appear to justify the effort

I have one of "those" HMRS sheets in my collection too, and I've clearly marked it as a dodgy one! The buffer-beam numerals are quite un-useable, although the full size stuff is "acceptable", particularly when toned down by weathering.

[mick b]

Ditto i thought I was unlucky?? The latest sheets I have found are not that good.The lining sheets have a very weak red lining which is barely visible on a Black background. I complained to HMRS via email never recieved a reply then saw "Tanya Jane" who states she is involved with HMRS re decals asking if anyone had similar problems. When others answered yes she never posted anymore re decals and I still never got any reply!!. May i suggest you send them back with a suitable covering letter , if enough people return them perhaps something will be done to correct the quality.
I had some LNER coach numbers I applied them and they looked very strange I then realised that they had been printed not once but twice , I therefore had double thickness numbers which I only realised when trying to remove them. They were returned and HMRS sent the Methfix version instead which were ok , I find them much harder to apply and much personally prefer pressfix versions.
Re the glue white sprit should remove the glue , use very sparingly. Rob try to add the Cab lining etc its not hard just take your time with cuts.

Mick

[Atlantic 3279]

I've no idea as to manufacturing dates, but my dodgy HMRS sheet is certainly not my latest purchase of such, in fact it may go back the better part of a decade.

[rob]

The one I used was one I'd dated June '06-I have two others marked as definately dodgy,IIRC missing any shading at all,just red and gold,no white either but I'd indicated this sheet as good! I have a sheet from last year too but haven't opened it yet-lets hope they have this issue under control...I'm surprised the HMRS didn't communicate better,I thought of them as an enthusiasts group rather than a business.......grateful to them for keeping these in production thoiugh I am,they should try to maintain quality,the sheets are not cheap.
I usually wash down well with water after application,must have forgotten this side,will try the White Spirit carefully...thanks MIck..
Re-lining the cab the reason I'm leaving as is is because when I began building around 1992 I decided on a certain standard of detail for my work so that I wouldn't have to keep going back to upgrade-my aim is an extensive layout of fairly basically detailed stock(thus also without any delicate detail which notoriously in my case includes brakegear)that I can continue to add to and which is also easy to maintain.I do though try to get them square and accurate in case there is a time I opt to upgrade detail etc and have the unused parts carefully stored away!||I'm afraid its very much "forget the quality,feel the width!" modelling!

[rob]

Managed to get the V's lined,not as bad a process as I rememberd from the N7 some time back,they now only need their letters and No's.Next up is the Q10,which is a little more problematic despite my reasonably good sources-Yeadons,RCTS and "Locos Of THe H&BR"(Barker).I'm aiming to produce 2510 whilst still with a Belpaire boiler and LNER on tender but while I'm pretty sure she was lined I'm not clear on what pattern,esp whether the lining was continued around the back of the tender or was in panels on each side.Anyone able to advise
Good to be moving along a bit though,some undemanding plastic wagon kits next methinks...

[Atlantic 3279]

Mmmmmm, I'm only thinking aloud here Rob, but I wonder if it helps you at all re the Q10 lining:
As a "Stirling family" loco the temptation to line somewhat as per Doncaster practice naturally exists, i.e. a single panel of lining going all the way around the sides and the back of the tender, which would work well on most Doncaster tenders/bunkers up to the time of grouping as the rear vertical edges of the structure were rounded anyway making the sides and rear "all of a piece". I'm ignorant of what H & B lining practice had been (do you know?) and I can't remember if repairs and re-paints carried on at Springhead after NER and then LNER absorption or whether Darlington etc took all the work, but I do notice that your tender has square rear edges (which more strongly separates the sides into three panels) and I believe that all works save for Doncaster (and the unknown Springhead practices) followed the "three separate panels" lining system.

[jwealleans]

Something in my memory says that if the corners were rounded then the lining went round them, but if they were square then each face was panelled. Of course, as Graeme implies, that may have been down to individual works and their practices rather than a hard and fast rule.

[Atlantic 3279]

I've sent you an e-mail Rob. I think the evidence leans strongly towards a separate panel on each side of the tender.

[rob]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen,I'm inclined to think three seperate panels as well-I do have a few shots of these in the original H&BR Graeme and its most elaborate-panels get a broad ultramarine blue line edged each side with vermillion! They have "inverted" corners and it seems to be the opposite of the expected Stirling practice in that the cabside has a tall panel,not lines going over the top.Boiler bands are double red,the whole effect is lovely.However a later photos shows the cab lining going up and over though this is stated to be unusual?Other H&BR classes seem to have varied like this too.They seem to have emerged from the war in unlined black and some seem to have had NER goods livery applied in the brief space between amalgamation and grouping then a hotch-potch of patch renumberings etc as the NER was swallowed up....its quite a minefield band so I've just sent an email to Mick Nicholson to see if he can help....I've looked very closely at all photos now and wonder us there any chance that some were plain black in early post-grouping days? yet a no. of photos show a great deal of care-polished splasher beadings etc-was taken of these even after grouping....I'll wait a little longer then I think I'll go with double bands and 3 single lined panels if nothing more certain emerges...

[mick b]

Have you Yeadon No 23? There is one decent photo of 2509 with the number on the tender so early livery. The only lining I can see is a single line at the bottom line of the footplate and a line going over the front cab edge onto the roof area. At a guess the boiler bands were two lines nothing obvious on the tender.I see no reason why the cab would not have lines on both sides. No idea re tender Bachmann have it going round the whole tender in one line. However they do the K3 with a footplate line only not the boiler bands !!
As you have mentioned spasher beading is polished brass as are some bolts on the smokebox saddle !! and the handrails , smokebox door hinges and cab window surrounds ++ the coupling rods too!!

[rob]

Well the lining is done to my usual basic standard(apologies Mick,despite your encouragement I decided not to take it any further)and I've also discovered its not just 1930's black and white film that had trouble distinguishing red on black,its my eyes now as well!....anno domini!
Anyway I've opted for seperate panels on the tender,as all of you advised and it seems "right",bearing out Jonathans memory of it being LNER schedule by looking as if it makes sense.I used the slightly brighter LNWR red from that sheet to highlight its pregrouping origins....I've now to decide if I pick out the splashers in brass,I'm tempted to try,I can easily overcoat if it looks garish....my theory has always been details omitted are less glaring than details clumsily executed but at least this can be reversed before spraying the overall varnish coat....
You can see the A2 in the background as well,I must remember to check how I'm going to secure the nameplate before I go any further in case I neeed to add any backing...

I wonder if Zenith will get around to releasing any more H&BR kits?..this worked out quite well.....I really like the unusual treatment of the cabside handrails and the domelessness( )...been wanting to try that out for while!

[Atlantic 3279]

Hi Rob

They look very nice

Regarding that Bulleid loco, I don't fancy tackling a rebuilt version, but Mistahjim may have a good point about using the Dapol kit as a route to a cheap easy body and tender etc. Of course, it would then be a streched BB as opposed to the drawn MN based version, but the "look" would be the same. As I've already discussed with Mistahjim (who may be game to have a go himself, so have a chat with him too), in order to avoid spending £40+ on Markits coupled wheels/axles/crankpins for a fanciful project that might not turn out as desired, the option of using Hornby BFB wheelsets at under £6 per six-wheel set is attractive. Unfortunately, the ones I've measured are 26.5 mm over the flanges, so unless you can get away with skimming the flanges down a bit the possibility of using a P2-like 26mm coupled wheelbase is closed off. That's a pity as use of two inexpensive SEF A2 chassis etches, lap jointed, would have been an easy route to frames, matching rods, and brakes if desired too. Of course the etched springs are of questionable value as you can't see through the BFB wheels! Plain hand cut frames would work just as well I suppose but you then have to make and match the rods too.......

[Robpulham]

Looking nice Rob, it must be very satisfying to get them this far?

[CVR1865]

I was staring at the tender on the Q and thinking I know that number, has he got it wrong or maybe it was on the duplicate list. But no a little research and I see they are spot on. Very good, nice work.

[rob]

2510-went to Quicksilver if my memory serves CVR?..quite the transformation!In all honesty I chose this no. because of the open coalrails in the photo I used but its a nice circumstance as well!
Rob,completion long overdue,I really do intend to get back to the layout next and may speed things up a bit by using the control panels from my old layout- if I can redo the track diagram it certainly has enough switches for isolation etc...but yes I'm delighted I saw these through first.
Graeme-brilliant reply,I reckon the Bullieds a done deal then,you've pretty much convinced yourself ........fascinating thought process there!