LNER paint schemes

[mojo]

What colour would have been used to paint steel girder overbridges in the pre-war period?

Maurice C.

[James Harrison]

According to David Adair, chocolate oxide and graphite. His book (Modellers' Guide to the LNER) doesn't give any more information than that I'm afraid.

[mick b]

http://www.stationcolours.info/index.php?p=1_4_LNER

[65447]

Stationcolours is incomplete and has some errors; David Adair's information in Modelling the LNER is more reliable but not comprehensive. There were actually 3 different colour schemes in use on the LNER, excluding the pre-Grouping schemes still extant until repainted in the LNER scheme.

As far as steel bridges were concerned the 1923 and 1930 schemes were the same, the change coming in from 1937. It depends on when the repaint might have been done as to whether it was pre-war or later.

Girders, handrails etc. and Footbridges, Iron and Steel:
1923 Chocolate Oxide and Graphite
1930 Chocolate Oxide and Graphite
1937 Graphite and oxide (brown) or tar paint, according to situation and circumstances

Underside of Bridges:
1923 & 1930 not specified
1937 Light Stone or Tar paint as required

Chocolate Oxide and Graphite were both colours specified by the LNER rather than to British Standard 381. Light Stone was to BS381:61 (now BS381C:361)

[drmditch]

Please excuse my reviving this thread.
I am in process of constructing a four span truss-girder bridge. At present is painted an 'oxide' colour, and to my eyes just does not look right.
I did experiment with a warmer brown, and that does not look right either.

For some reason I expect the girders to be grey.
Would this be the 'graphite' colour mentioned above?

The railway is set in late LNER days, and perhaps it might not have been re-painted recently!

[Graeme Leary]

Back in 2015 I was scratch building some buildings for my layout and googled 'Railway Building Liveries for LNER' and some 20 pages appeared covering most/all of the major/original constituent companies paint schemes.

However page 1, headed just LONDON & NORTH EASTERN RAILWAYS had the sentence:-

'Timber Footbridges were painted Stone or Cream but metal footbridges were painted green, as were water tanks and water columns'.

There were some good shots of various Green/Cream combination and this is what I've used (hopefully correctly) for my stations, sheds etc). There is one shot (under the GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY sub-heading) of a small rural (but un-named) station with what looks like a footbridge with railings and cross-bars painted in brown and a darkish grey canopy. However, not a very clear photo.

The details of this 'Liveries' posting includes (by constituent companies) 'Paints for Modellers' by brand, colour etc.

Allowing that google is only as good as the last 'update' this might be worth looking at.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

[drmditch]

As with the original post on this thread, my current interest/problem is what colour to paint a large girder viaduct, built initially of wrought iron and strengthened in steel. The only relevant contemporary photograph that I can find is on page 27 of 'LNER Locomotives in Colour', Ron White and Norman Johnson. This is one of HM Lane's pictures, and shows an A1 Pacific leaving KX in 1937 under what I believe is a later-removed bridge. This appears to be dark grey in colour. If it was originally painted chocolate there is no discernable trace of such.

If anyone has a copy of 'The Big Four' in colour, or other contemporary photographic reference, I would be very grateful if they could get in touch.
I am on the verge of dismantling my viaduct for re-painting, but would be grateful for any confirmation as to colour.

[garryluck]

I have a copy of the Big Four in Colour in good condition (except for some wear and tear to the dust jacket) for sale @ £10 and am within 10-15 miles of you. Unfortunately, I'm unable to send a private message but you can contact me at garryluck@yahoo.com.

[65447]

As with the original post on this thread, my current interest/problem is what colour to paint a large girder viaduct, built initially of wrought iron and strengthened in steel. The only relevant contemporary photograph that I can find is on page 27 of 'LNER Locomotives in Colour', Ron White and Norman Johnson. This is one of HM Lane's pictures, and shows an A1 Pacific leaving KX in 1937 under what I believe is a later-removed bridge. This appears to be dark grey in colour. If it was originally painted chocolate there is no discernable trace of such.

If anyone has a copy of 'The Big Four' in colour, or other contemporary photographic reference, I would be very grateful if they could get in touch.
I am on the verge of dismantling my viaduct for re-painting, but would be grateful for any confirmation as to colour.

It's most unfortunate but from my research it appears that none of the accepted colour photograph sources clearly show the paint colours. Not only is there a lack of structures in the photographs but those that do appear are typically in deep shadow. Before you made this post I found the girder bridge you refer to, noting that it was in sunlight so that the colour would appear lighter. Given the variability of colour film emulsions and print papers, and that I have yet to come across colour specifications for the LNER-specific paints, it would be reasonable to approximate to the mid grey of that viaduct. I really must find time to contact one of the extant paint manufacturers for any information that they might hold.

Alternatively you may wish to refer to this post viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9343&p=129428#p128867 by Darwin4975 of the end of the canopy over KX station, where it's possible that both the chocolate and graphite colours might be present in the steelwork and cladding.

[billbedford]

Just remember that the pigment most used for lightening the colour of paint up until the early 60s was lead white. This has the interesting property of becoming darker in the presence of sulphur, eg from loco exhaust, so whatever colour the structures were originally painted they would have become a charcoal grey after a few years.

[65447]

I have just been browsing my copy of Kevin McCormack's 'The Eastern Around London - A COLOUR PORTFOLIO', Ian Allen. There are several photographs showing steel bridge structures and in each case the paint finish is the Graphite Grey, see pp 20, 31, 51, 56. The most interesting is that on p31, at Palace Gates, which very clearly shows the lattice girder work of the passenger footbridge painted grey but the surmounting glazed and timber covering in the green and cream.

I agree that colour perception varies and is personal, but when fresh the colour appears to be a mid-grey with a slight bluish tinge, darkening as Bill suggest with age and deposition of airborne pollutants.

[drmditch]

Thank you for this.
I have now nearly completed my bridge, and will post some pictures as soon as I can manage.
It seems to my eyes to 'look right' in a dirty grey.