LNER Milk Tankers

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swhite01
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by swhite01 »

There was an article by Eric Neve in Railway World some years ago discussing the milk traffic on the GNR and I think the LNER. I am away at the moment but can post a reference on my return. I also have a plan of Finsbury Park dated 1907, this shows a milk facility at the North end of the station with an under pass/ foot way going under the North ends of the platforms, maybe this was developed in LNER days. I have posted images from the map on my Flickr site but again as I am away I can't post a link, the map was featured in another thread on LNER ency some time ago,
Steve
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Cutter
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by Cutter »

Thanks Steve, that is all a big help.
swhite01
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by swhite01 »

The article I mentioned was in the June 1982 Railway World, pages 290-292. The article is titled "Milk Traffic on Rail - 2 Great Northern Milk Traffic"

Eric Neve describes the working of the Milk services over the GNR lines in a very comprehensive article detailing locos, timings and vehicles, in particular the 1930's. There were specifically 2 trains to Kings Cross with the bulk of the churns unloaded at Finsbury Park through the Milk Wharf... 1400 churns...he comments that until around 1930 milk was conveyed in 10 Gallon metal churns. The Milk wharf was at the western side of the station and churns were transported under the platforms in a subway from platforms 3/4, the wharf could handle 1600 churns ... 22 men were employed at the wharf.

I would like to scan and post the article but I am not sure if copyright prevents this, alternatively I can scan an email privately if of interest.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8336963@N ... 305057063/

The link above is to the Finsbury Park track plan noted in my previous email it shows the Milk Traffic Shed and subway.

Steve
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by 1H was 2E »

Cutter, regarding the vans from Stafford; this is tangential I know but may be of interest.
I've found in my (very fragile, printed on cheap paper, only intended for a short life ) "Passenger Train Marshalling Arrangements " from 17/7/33 ufo" (LMS) the following;
1.33 p.m. SO Stafford to Willesden; Inter District Set; 2 Milk Tanks, Congleton to Woolwich; 3 Milk Tanks and non corridor Brake Van, Uttoxeter - Mitre Bridge. (Attached at Nuneaton Milk Tank Carlisle to Woolwich.)
This suggests the origin of the milk traffic that in earlier days came to FP via Stafford, and also confirms that by 1933 tanks were in use.
No trace of an SX train, or the services from Congleton or Uttoxeter - perhaps these were trains that only conveyed milk traffic and accordingly did not appear in the passenger marshalling circular
Perhaps there was rationalisation of flows by 1933 as far as milk went - although, in the same document, (and presumably to spite the GW!) through vans ran overnight Euston to Swansea and Merthyr, and, perhaps most bizarrely, Leamington - Merthyr (think of the number of attach/detaches!) so equally the milk traffic to FP might still be running, but just not shown.
Edit; only the Congleton - FP traffic would go via Stafford - the Uttoxeter traffic (if there was any) would be attached to the (?Stafford-Grantham service) en route.
65447
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by 65447 »

That would be the Milk traffic from Ingestre. The GNR had an 'orphan' section of line between the LNWR at Stafford and a junction near Bromshall with the North Staffordshire line to Uttoxeter. Around 1928 United Dairies (Wholesale) (UD(W)) requested the LNER to construct seven 4-wheel underframes for Milk Tank Wagons, tanks to be supplied by the Dairy, to replace the milk churns. That traffic was expanded in later years.

Do any of the other parts of the article discuss the GE Milk traffic?
swhite01
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by swhite01 »

Further to my previous message and the request from 65447 the article is solely on the GNR Milk traffic. ( the preceding article may be describing SR/GWR traffic but I only have removed pages of the GNR article)

To provide further information from the article:-
By 1900, two special express milk services operated each night of the week, one from Stafford Common, dept 5.40 pm and the other from Egginton Junction, dept 10.15 pm, traveling via Derby Friargate and Nottingham Victoria, both stopping at Grantham, except on Sunday nights where the 2nd train stopped at Peterborough and Hitchin. From the earliest days until around 1930, milk was conveyed in 10 gallon metal churns, both trains terminated at Kings Cross although most of the churns were off loaded at Finsbury Park ..... Milk Wharf. By 1930 they trains were conveying 1800 churns nightly to London of which 1400 were handled at FP, in addition 500 churns arrived from Wensleydale and 400 more from various GN stations.
The articles goes on to mention timings and loco classes for the above services.

To accommodate the Wensleydale milk, the 8pm Newcastle - Kings Cross was duplicated from York, but the distinctive NER milk vans, usually carrying small boards labeled "Northallerton Milk" were conveyed by the main train at 10.18pm, Loco a PBO K3. Other consignments of milk were conveyed by ordinary trains incl 10.23pm ex Leeds, and the 1.35am parcels ex Grantham.

The article goes on to discuss local milk workings into and out of Kings Cross on the Suburban line to Hitchin and Peterborough and then the empty vehicle workings.

It notes that from 1931 onwards there was gradual decline in milk churn traffic, two reasons are muted 1. 3000 gallon milk tanks were introduced by Express dairies between Ingestre and Finchley and 2. there was an increasing tendency for smaller producers to be absorbed by larger concerns.
By 1935 the Northallerton Milk had ceased, then only one milk train ran nightly leaving Stafford Common at 5.45pm and reaching FP at 2.40am.

The GNR built special bogie milk vans for this traffic and in 1927, 14 four-wheel vans were built, by the LNER,for the Northallerton traffic, 32ft long and carried small boards reading "Northallerton Milk".

The article is 3 pages long and has a large amount of detail and a number of photographs of vehicles and workings.

Steve

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Cutter
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by Cutter »

This is all great stuff! I just read about the milk shed at FP being moved 20' on rollers in 1911 during station improvements and being given an electric lift to take churns down to the milk wharf at street level.
If milk tanks did run to FP then where was the milk stored when they were unloaded and how was it distributed? Presumably clients had to use tanker lorries?
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StevieG
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by StevieG »

( Also posted in the 'General Discussion' / "Milk Tank Traffic on the LNER" thread )

FWIW, mention has previously been made (in this or the other thread), in connection with possible milk handling, of :-
1. Finsbury Park's 'depot' platform (and also of the sidings which extended beyond, over Wells Terrace, and down into Lennox Road yard), which was adjacent to the Down side of the station : By the 1960s the platform was used for rail traffic by MacFisheries Ltd., and later still the premises became C.I.L. Shopfitters (little if any rail traffic, though remaining rail-connected beyond the era of the 1975-76 Kings Cross-Biggleswade resignalling), with someone therein arranging for the arrival of Pullman car Doris to become for many years a static facility at the platform, which was also bedecked with other railway ephemera ; and -
2. A street-level milk handling facility of some sort in, or very close to, Wells Terrace, also on the Down side of the main line.

Also no doubt this reference ...
Cutter wrote: " .... the milk shed at FP being moved 20' on rollers in 1911 during station improvements and being given an electric lift to take churns down to the milk wharf at street level. .... "
... was in connection with the station's Down side expansion, when the Down Goods line was moved westwards, and an additional passenger line added through the station along with the addition of the new platforms 9/10 island.

Quite possibly the quoted 'electric lift' was the one I just about remember seeing, in the '60s I think, at the north end of the Up Fast & Slow lines platform island (numbered 3 & 4 pre-1970s rationalisation, after which they were 1 & 2, but since recent reinstatement to public use of the former Nos.1 & 2 island, they are now again Nos. 3 & 4).
By the time I started work at FP, it had gone, but older staff spoke of the milk subway which ran across from there, westwards to the Wells Terrace side of the station, though I never learned where remaining access to it might've been - it doubtless still existed then (mid-1970s), and may even continue to do so today, hidden down below the since further extended (northwards) platforms [Nos. 3/4 now extends, full width, over and beyond Stroud Green Road underbridge to accommodate 12-car EMUs and as an emergency turnback for 'InterCity' (Virgin East Coast etc.) trains], quite possibly even covering the site of the old No.6 signal box.

I don't know whether the previously referred to milk traffic unloading at FP was all done on the Up side, or was tripped back to the FP depot platform or Down passenger platforms from KX, or both.
BZOH

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Paul Chappell
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by Paul Chappell »

What changes have people made to the Hornby milk tank to better represent a LNER version?
jwealleans
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by jwealleans »

Start at Post 4 here.
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