LNER Milk Tankers

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Sniffer
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LNER Milk Tankers

Post by Sniffer »

Been reading up on these today, and they seem scarce compared to the other big 4.

Maybe a few more in East Anglia, but what about the rest of the system ?
Thinking specifically about the Yorkshire / NE region.

I guess most of the traffic was towards London, and the big cities.

Any thoughts ?
Re-open the Leeds Northern northwards !
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teaky
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by teaky »

The following is a little vague I'm afraid but I hope it helps spark a few thoughts from other more knowledgeable members.


Across much of the network, milk appears to have been transported in churns in vehicles also used for parcels and attached to secondary passenger workings.

I believe there was a concentration of milk transport from Wensleydale.

jwealleans did a nice little milk train with a full brake and some 6-wheel tanks a while ago but I can't remember which region this was based in or inspired by.

I'm sure I read a two-part article on milk trains a year or two ago but I can't for the life of me remember where or by whom.
jwealleans
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by jwealleans »

Image

Tankers converted from the Hornby using Peter Tatlow's drawings in the blue NPCCS volume. They're way back on my workbench.

I think it may just be a reflection of native industry within the LNER catchment area. There were plenty of milk vans, so churn traffic, but not so many dairies. There was the large one at Marylebone, of course, which was only demolished in the 1980s.

A recent LNER Society Journal contained a fascinating article about one milk tanker - detachable at that - which made a huge journey every day.
Last edited by jwealleans on Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
earlswood nob
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by earlswood nob »

Good morning all

I think milk transport in churns lasted into the 50's at least.
I remember platforms at the end of farm drives, where the farmers put their milk churns for collection by lorry.
There was a dairy close to the station, and I guess that they would use van transport in churns.
We used to call a late night van train from the west via Reading, "The milk".

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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by 65447 »

The LNER ran, and BR continued, services between:

Kittybrewster (Aberdeen) to Laisterdyke (Bradford) - the one that JW alludes to and that used a mobile milk tank or two carried at the head of the Up Fish
Leyburn to both Hawes and Northallerton (all in North Riding of Yorkshire)
North Elmham (Norfolk) and Stowmarket and Halesworth (Suffolk) to Ilford and Stratford (North London - GE Section)
Ingestre (Staffordshire) to Finsbury Park and Finchley (North London - GN Section) with some also going to Rossmore Road, Marylebone (North London) over the Great Western & Great Central Joint Line

The LNER used three methods of transport, these being churns, fixed milk tanks having 2000 or 3000 gallons capacity on initially 4 wheel and later 6 wheel wagons, and mobile milk tanks. These last were 4 wheel or 6 wheel road going trailers that were run onto and off specially equipped wagons with guide rails and securing chains. The containers - churns and tanks - were owned by the dairy companies although the LNER provided a stock of churns for more efficient utilisation and speed of transfer. A typical milk train, as opposed to milk tank wagons conveyed in a fast working, usually comprised milk tank wagons and one or more vans for churns. The old conical shaped churns were replaced by the parallel-sided type in the late 1920s.

The dairy companies reallocated their stock of tank wagons to suit the traffic, so over time the various railway company-built wagons could be seen on other lines. Although the dairies closed at different times, or switched movement to road, some traffic lasted well into the 1960s by tank and churn.

Peter Tatlow describes all company types of fixed milk tank wagon in Historic Carriage Drawings Volume 3 NPCS, Pendragon.
earlswood nob
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by earlswood nob »

G'day all
Thanks 65447 for the info. I find such things very interesting.
There is a local farm which still has the platform at the end of the drive, but not used now and it looks like it will fall down soon.
I keep meaning to take a pic for posterity, but there's a lovely old country pub close by, so my thought are usually on other things.
Tatlow's blue book of NPCS vehicles is very informative and includes some interesting Milk vans.

If only there was time to build everything I like, it would need a stadium the size of Wembley to display it. It would probably attract a bigger crowd than the England football team.

Now to suffer some more eyestrain building a tender chassis and brake gear.

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manna
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

Milk traffic was also handled at Kings Cross, IE, the Milk dock, and also on Platform 1 (churns only)

The milk traffic for Finchley (United Dairies) was often run through to Edgware, where the engine was run round, this made it easier for the loco and crew to push the train into the dairy siding, rather than having to run round at Finchley at the start of the morning rush (5-6am).

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john coffin
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by john coffin »

It is easy to forget how small farms were until the mid 60's so it was not common for tankers to be needed.

Most farms in North Lincolnshire produced between 6 and 20 churns a day,which were generally transported by horse and cart to the local station for gathering. Dairies were much smaller, and more widespread, just like butchers and abattoirs before the EU made local slaughter so difficult. It was the introduction of large herds of Fresian cows for greater and more frequent milk yields and the post Beeching reduction in branch lines that meant the need for road tankers.

This is another "small" trade that has disappeared from our consciousness due to the cutting back of the railway branch network,and the growth of large supermarkets.

Amazing to think that the railways were actually doing an "AMAZON" before the introduction of the internet :lol:

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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by v3man »

Not LNER territory, I know, but we holidayed on a mixed farm in Somerset in 1975 and 1976 where he had 18 milking cows. The churns from the morning milking were stood in the river until the afternoon milking and then the lot were taken down to the stand by the farm gate for collection. Hard to believe now that was happening so late on - I'm sure this must have still gone on in other parts of the country then as well.
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by 65447 »

manna wrote:G'Day Gents

Milk traffic was also handled at Kings Cross, IE, the Milk dock, and also on Platform 1 (churns only)

The milk traffic for Finchley (United Dairies) was often run through to Edgware, where the engine was run round, this made it easier for the loco and crew to push the train into the dairy siding, rather than having to run round at Finchley at the start of the morning rush (5-6am).

manna
Also at Liverpool St and no doubt others - but these were not necessarily the principal workings from main collection point or dairy to dairy processor, just other passenger-rated stuff.
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by 65447 »

v3man wrote:Not LNER territory, I know, but we holidayed on a mixed farm in Somerset in 1975 and 1976 where he had 18 milking cows. The churns from the morning milking were stood in the river until the afternoon milking and then the lot were taken down to the stand by the farm gate for collection. Hard to believe now that was happening so late on - I'm sure this must have still gone on in other parts of the country then as well.
Basically until the demise of the Milk Marketing Board following deregulation of the market in 1994.
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52D
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by 52D »

In Northumberland ISTR a firm called Smailes at Broomhill had bulk milk road tankers and also collected the churns from the end of farm tracks mentioned above by EN
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by Greedy Boards »

An old subject, I know, but recently came across an interesting bit of research held by the British Agricultural History Society, "The Social and Economic Impact of a Rural Railway: the Wensleydale Line", by Christine Hallas www.bahs.org.uk/AGHR/ARTICLES.

The article covers the early distribution of milk from Wensleydale in 1894, to Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Sunderland, Darlington, Hull, York, and Leeds. Then expansion of the trade to the West Riding of Yorkshire, Lancashire, and to the large United Dairies depot at Finsbury Park. The article mentions a bottling depot set up at Northallerton in 1905, and dairies at Redmire, and Askrigg. These facilities were taken over by Cow & Gate in 1932, at a time when the annual milk production at Askrigg hovered around 250,000 gallons, with approximately 82.5% being conveyed to Finsbury Park.

The dairy at Leyburn was an Express Dairies facility, established in 1937. when milk traffic was switched from their dairy in Appleby in Cumbria, to the bottling plant established in Cricklewood in London. Annual milk production conveyed via Leyburn had dropped as far as 141,140 gallons in 1934, but with the establishment of the new dairy at Leyburn, this figure would climb to 3,367,151 gallons in 1939.
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shildonboy
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by shildonboy »

I also remember the milk churns being collected from the farm gate in the mid 70s in County Durham in Weardale and Teasdale.
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Cutter
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Re: LNER Milk Tankers

Post by Cutter »

I’m modeling Welwyn North c.1930 in N gauge, and have been pondering milk traffic on the ECML in that era recently. I understand that most traffic came down in two overnight milk trains that called at Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. This would have been churn traffic, mostly traveling in 6 wheel vans and ex-GNR bogie vans even after tank wagons began to appear in the late 20s (some churns travelled in passenger train’s brake vans).

The former GNR “Milk Station” at Finsbury Park was a major destination for milk traffic on the ECML because of the presence of big daries nearby. It seems to have consisted of a dedicated siding and shed where churns were offloaded and stored for distribution by road to local clients, but I have as yet been unable to ascertain its location within the station complex.

The big client in 1930 was United Daries, who were pioneers of pasteurizing and tank wagon use, but whose facilities at Finsbury Park don’t seem to have had direct rail access. The main pasteurizing and bottling plant was almost half a mile up the road, and they were also using another dairy even further away (now The Old Dairy pub) in Crouch Hill.

I am curious to learn more about how milk was handled at Finsbury Park, particularly in tankers, and if these needed special facilities. My hunch is that they didn’t. The only contemporary reference that I have found to tankers’ unloading says simply that, “At the point of delivery, the milk is unloaded from the tanks at the rate of 150 gallons a minute, and speedily conveyed to the consumer by motor and horse trucks.” (1928, location unspecified)

I am also keen to learn how many tank wagons one might expect to see on the ECML in the early 30s with United Daries (or indeed other dairies’) tanks fitted—one or two, if that, I suspect. Also, in the Edwardian era the 6 wheel vans on the overnight train from Stafford were NSR vehicles, and at least one LNWR van was making its way to Kings Cross daily. Are such vans likely to have been still in service on this route in the early 30s, albeit in LMS livery?
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