Lane Head C&W

[Chas Levin]

Hi Chas,

That rather assumes I have got it right!

I will post images soon.

John

Thanks John, much appreciated! It will be very helpful for me; I've found various images but none showing the underside...

Chas

[JASd17]

I trust this helps.

and another just for the fun of wagons...

John

[Chas Levin]

Hello John, thank you very much, that does indeed help - but, at the risk of trespassing upon your time even more, would it be possible please to post a picture taken from above, looking straight down onto the underside of the wagon? Although the pic you've posted makes various parts of the gear I've been unable to visualise very clear, the parts I'm stuck on right at the moment - the levers and hangers (parts 26 and 11&12) that are fitted to the W irons - are hidden by the wheels in this view.

I think part of what's confusing me is that the instructions - and parts - cater for both earlier single brake lever and later two lever types of vehicle and the layout of the instructions - flipping between versions 'A' and 'B' is for me a little difficult to follow...

Chas

[jwealleans]

Chas, just to confuse you further, I should say that I don't use all the brake gear Danny supplies as although it's complete and accurate, it traps the wheels. I usually just put a plain wire between the brake shoes instead of the yoke and don't fit the levers and fulcrums as they just get in the way. As you've observed, they're hidden by the wheels and so can't be seen anyway.

[JASd17]

Chas, just to confuse you further, I should say that I don't use all the brake gear Danny supplies as although it's complete and accurate, it traps the wheels. I usually just put a plain wire between the brake shoes instead of the yoke and don't fit the levers and fulcrums as they just get in the way. As you've observed, they're hidden by the wheels and so can't be seen anyway.

Jonathan is correct especially for 00 gauge. As I model mainly in EM there is enough room for the yokes, just.

Are you modelling the later arrangement, Danny's Type B? All these photos show that arrangement. Frankly fitting the two parts 26 to parts 11 and 12 is a pain. As is then connecting them to the yokes!

EDIT: I will post a photo of the underside of Danny's GN Horsebox, the arrangement is essentially the same, but looks a little more clear. Later this evening, if I have time.


John

[Chas Levin]

Thanks John and Johnathan!

The underside photos are very helpful, thank you. Actually, I had intended to model the Type A, because I'll be doing the wagon in GNR livery, but with all these very helpful pictures of the Type B and none of the A, I'm tempted to swap! Do you know what year it changed from Type A to B? I'm aiming for the very early 20s, just pre-grouping, but there's a little leeway because the car to go on this wagon started production in 1919: might a Type B have been around between 1919 and 1923... or even 1924-5, to allow for a wagon that hadn't had a repaint in a while?

To Jonathan W: I too have omitted various brake parts on previous D&S builds but I thought I'd try doing everything this time, especially as it's essentially a flat wagon so there's less to build and less to see afterwards. It looks as if the wheels would be trapped by the safety hoops anyway (wrong term I know: I mean those flattened wire 'hoops' running under the axles and yokes and parallel to the direction of travel - what's the correct name?) so including the yokes wouldn't be a problem...

Have to zoom in and study these pics further after dinner: thank you so much John for posting these

Chas

[JASd17]

I am reasonably sure the brake arrangements were changing in the late GNR period. A photo would confirm this, there was a Backtrack article about GN CCTs, which had the same underframe arrangements. Or was it Modellers' Backtrack?

So type B in GN livery is OK, I think.

John

[Chas Levin]

I am reasonably sure the brake arrangements were changing in the late GNR period. A photo would confirm this, there was a Backtrack article about GN CCTs, which had the same underframe arrangements. Or was it Modellers' Backtrack?

So type B in GN livery is OK, I think.

John

Ha: earlier this evening, I wrote & posted: "Excellent - thanks John. The diagrams in the instructions show the Type B arrangement too, but they don't show some details: but between them and your pictures I should be fine now"

Late night Edit: Went upstairs later to go back to this kit and saw - even though its only a few days since I last worked on it - that I'd forgotten that I got as far as doing the sole bar overlays... and that I've already put on the ones for the Type A single lever version! So, I guess I'm committed to a Type A after all

At any rate I now have a clearer idea of the general layout of things - and tomorrow, as Scarlett O'Hara says, is another day

Chas

[JASd17]

GNR horse box arrangements as showing the same relation of parts 11 and 12 to parts 26, on the CCTs.

Note there is no 'upper' link (when viewed right way up) from the central cross-member to the yokes, because this is effectively invisible, as per Jonathan's comments.

My problem is Russ Whitwam's ethereal voice in my head, 'It will be all right when it's finished'... Hence the full brake gear!

Everyone in the know will agree Russ is a top modeller.

John

[Chas Levin]

Thanks again John: those two horse box pics are excellent, as they really show the parts 11/12/26 relation very clearly and I note that you have shifted the focus between the two so that each one shows a different end of the wagon, which shows that relation from both sides - very helpful .

You may not have seen that I just had to go back and edit the last reply I posted earlier in the evening, when I thought I'd go with the Type B, after discovering that I'm already more committed to the Type A than I'd remembered! .
I'm assuming at this stage that other aspects of the arrangement must be common between the A and B, not just the 11/12/26 parts - a little frustratingly, Danny provides a diagram of the B but not the A.

I must admit though that this is getting into the realms of 'no-one sees it in normal viewing but I know it's there', so I shan't worry too much if it isn't quite right in the end.

I don't think I've come across Russ Whitwam's models before, but I'll see what I can find online...

[Chas Levin]

Quick update: I had a look through Peter Tatlow's Southern Region LNER Wagons book which has quite a detailed section in the introduction on different braking configurations and on pages 54-5 are some 18 ft vented clerestory vans for various perishable goods, including a diagram by Mr Tatlow, which use a similar arrangement. That reminded me that I have a couple of D&S kits of these vans in my stash and I found that the instructions for them include a diagram of the single brake lever system like the Type 'A' OCT we've been talking about, so armed with that and your photos, I've made great progress today .

By the way John, in your post on Tuesday with the first picture of the underside of your GNR OCT, you included another of a wagon "just for the fun of wagons" and I meant to ask, what type of wagon is it please?

Chas

[JASd17]

By the way John, in your post on Tuesday with the first picture of the underside of your GNR OCT, you included another of a wagon "just for the fun of wagons" and I meant to ask, what type of wagon is it please?

It is a Great Northern 10 Ton 3-plank dropside wagon. A whitemetal kit. Not sure of the origin, it might have been D&S, but does not appear in the catalogue I have. Someone will know; DS255 'GN Colwick wagon'?

John

[Darryl Tooley]

DS255 is listed in the Autumn 2001 D&S catalogue as '3 Plank Colwick Open'.

D

[Woodcock29]

Definitely the Colwick open wagon, I have two.
Andrew

[jwealleans]

Yep, agree.