Bananas and fish ??

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manna
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Bananas and fish ??

Post by manna » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:46 pm

G'day Gents

A few questions, if you don't mind, the yellow banana vans that you see on E-Bay, etc,( Wrenn-Dapol,) I take it there BR vans, but did the LNER have banana vans or were these just 'Fruit vans' :?

The other half of the question is for the fish vans, are the 'Blue Spot' vans BR if so what did the LNER use, in the pictures I've seen, they seem to be standard looking brown vans.

Thanks, manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

john coffin
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by john coffin » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:08 am

The GN certainly had banana vans, including a rather nice Banana brake van, so it is pretty certain that such also ran in LNER time.

They were often probably branded Ffyfes and in many cases supplied by them too.

Fish trains were also a regular feature on GN/GE,and down from Scotland, and these trains continued in LNER times, with fitted trains leaving places like Grimsby in the late evening to be in Billingsgate by early morning the next day.

Best check out the Tatlow books though

even you sheep chasers should be able to find them at Amazon.

Paul

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:37 am

The LNER 1930s-built fish vans do at a glance appear to be standard brown vans, but were never quite the same as the general goods vans as sizes were different, underframes always timber when other vans were switching to steel, different types of sliding door, different corner bracing etc. Late thirties fish vans were longer too, 12 foot wheelbase. Many of the pre group and early LNER vans would still be in use in quantity too, with fully or partly slatted or louvred sides (sometimes ends too), end and/or roof vents, yet more styles of sliding door, a few on very long underframes or even six wheel or bogie types, different roof profiles and so on. A weird and wonderful mix at times. That's without the added variety of foreign (company) fish vans running on LNER metals too.....
Bachmann A2 to A2/3: from my thread in Model Railways page 56 to 83, also

Hornby A3 to A1/1 Great Northern: from page 84, in resin from page 108.


Apologies for so many missing images - see page 1 for reasons & possible solution.

Bill Bedford
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by Bill Bedford » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:41 am

manna wrote:G'day Gents

A few questions, if you don't mind, the yellow banana vans that you see on E-Bay, etc,( Wrenn-Dapol,) I take it there BR vans, but did the LNER have banana vans or were these just 'Fruit vans' :?
The difference between banana vans and fruit vans is that the former were fitted with steamfitting coils to help the bananas ripen. This continued until the 60s/70s when ethylene ripening of fruit became prevalent.

JASd17
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by JASd17 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:10 am

The LNER produced several diagrams of banana van:

Diagrams 42, 52 and 140.

As Bill has mentioned they had internal steam-heating pipes.
Banana vans list.jpg
I have lists of random numbers as well as block numbers should anybody require them

John

Woodcock29
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by Woodcock29 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:53 pm

Hi Manna

I have emailed you some info on Banana vans.

Look forward to catching up tomorrow.

Woodcock29

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52D
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by 52D » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:21 pm

Just been reading the St Margarets book by Harry Knox and he relates in NBR days when the fishing for herring had reached bonanza proportions the railway ran out of fish wagons so an urgent signal went out to send any spare cattle wagons to a central point in Edinburgh for repair and cleaning then on to Mallaig. I wonder how far South those cattle wagons filled with fish got.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.

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manna
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by manna » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:55 pm

G'day Gents

Thank you for your replies, that gives me something to work with, looks like a couple of Parkside LNER fish wagons will be winging there way to Oz shortly.
Thanks to Woodcock 29, I now have a couple of pictures of LNER banana wagons, but these I might have to make myself.

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

Hatfield Shed
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by Hatfield Shed » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:07 am

manna wrote:... I now have a couple of pictures of LNER banana wagons, but these I might have to make myself...
Drawing in LNER wagons vol 4A.

The Ratio kit for a Banana van, which most closely resembled the LMS version, forms a decent basis for bodywork mods to the steel underframe LNER type with 10' wb; or with complete replacement of the underframe, the earlier 9' wb type. (The old 3H 9' u/f kit just 'slotted in' for the easiest alteration imaginable, whitemetal detail parts on either type from ABS for three hanger brakegear, pipes, axlebox type etc. resulted in sufficient weight for good running; practically builds itself.)These Ratio kits turn up cheaply s/h in a tatty assembled state with some regularity, and are an effective short cut to a model. Just remember the peeling remnants of the roughly 20" on a side importer's label (or two) plastered on the van side.

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S.A.C. Martin
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by S.A.C. Martin » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:48 am

Morning all - this seems like the right thread as it mentions the LNER fish vans. I picked up a job lot of Bachmann's very nice LNER fish vans http://www.ehattons.com/52708/Bachmann_ ... etail.aspx

for £6 each in one of their bargain pack sales. These ones are I think in a livery too early for my time period (1946-49 is my time period) so my question is - where do I go to find the right livery to put these in?

Is there a specific book I should be looking at for this?

One thing I think I have identified that needs changing - red bufferbeams should be black for later liveries?

Best wishes.

mick b
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by mick b » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:30 pm

S.A.C. Martin wrote:Morning all - this seems like the right thread as it mentions the LNER fish vans. I picked up a job lot of Bachmann's very nice LNER fish vans http://www.ehattons.com/52708/Bachmann_ ... etail.aspx

for £6 each in one of their bargain pack sales. These ones are I think in a livery too early for my time period (1946-49 is my time period) so my question is - where do I go to find the right livery to put these in?

Is there a specific book I should be looking at for this?

One thing I think I have identified that needs changing - red bufferbeams should be black for later liveries?

Best wishes.
Simon

The link is for normal ventilated vans ? @£7.50 a pop if you buy four.

Postwar as far as I know is the small type livery with the cast "Fish" plate normally in the centre of the door.

Red bufferbeams ??? :shock:

jwealleans
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by jwealleans » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:34 pm

If you're still looking for banana vans, there were a number of the ex-GE 10T vans used in this traffic. They feature on Dan Pinnock's latest list as posted by JASd17.

Edit - genuine question, don't have my books to hand, but shouldn't those vans in Simon's link have the end hatch?

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S.A.C. Martin
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by S.A.C. Martin » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:59 pm

Thank you both for your prompt replies.
mick b wrote:
Red bufferbeams ??? :shock:
My apologies I think I must have posted a link to the wrong model. Maybe they were vent vans? :?

From memory the samples I have at home, the bufferbeams are very definitely red and a different shade to the bodyshell.

Sorry gents - may be confusing the types I am looking at.

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S.A.C. Martin
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by S.A.C. Martin » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:32 pm

Just a follow up - they were vent vans, the buffers are not red but there are lighter than the bodyshell colour, and I've also had it confirmed they're actually perfect for my era so I'm very happy all round! :)

LNER4479
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Re: Bananas and fish ??

Post by LNER4479 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:39 pm

Re the 'Blue Spot' on the fish vans, this denoted that the vehicles were fitted with roller bearings as part of the (ultimately belated) efforts by BR to speed up the traffic. The D.801 vans were built with the feature from new (1960 onwards) and some of the earlier D.800 vans were retrospectively fitted around this time. So a van displaying a blue spot is only strictly speaking correct for 1960-ish onwards.
(apologies if you already knew this but it doesn't appear to have been mentioned above)
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(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076. Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Wakefield (Nov 2018), St Evenage (Jan 2019), Spalding (Nov 2019)

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