The LNER Encyclopedia

G'day,

I'm getting close to finishing a small bunch of 7mm Howlden flat roof stock to go with my C12 and I'm thinking about taking a brave pill and having a go at a J52. I've even got an Ace kit (?) to have a go with. Trouble is I can't find a decent 7mm scale drawing of said loco. I've got the Alan Sibley 4mm scale one out of an old MRJ but I'm not convinced by the front end. The kit comes with a scale drawing which looks better to me but I'm well aware of the ace reputation of Ace kits. There's a substantial difference in the front end between the 2 drawings (IIRC over a scale ft). Can any of you knowledgeable folks point me at a decent scale drawing please, ideally in 7mm scale.

Thanks,

Vernon

Good morning all

There are many variations of J52's, which may explain the scarcity of drawings.

A look in Yeadons Register Vol 46A will give you plenty of choice.

Earlswood nob

Get a copy of Birds GNR Locomotives. It was re-printed a couple of years ago, and is most likely available on Amazon.

G F Bird's 'Locomotives of the Great Northern Railway' has been re-printed by Amberly Publishing in 2013, See ... here.... The ISBN number is 978 1 4456 3415 9.

I can't make any comment on the accuracy of the drawings. Perhaps those with greater knowledge of the GNR can enlighten us.

I also have the drawing by Allan Sibley in MRJ no.35, which is partly helpful for one of my current projects in the form of a J54. Perhaps I could say that the the 'look' of the GN saddle tanks appears to me to be quite tricky, especially in relation to smokebox diameter and tank width and height.

Maybe the question should be "what is a J52" with so many variations it can become confusing. As an example the was a drawing of a J52 in an old MRN. This was with a Stirling boiler and also had deeper valances. When Stirling engines were re-boilered with larger domed boilers the saddle tank rose in relation to the cab and the front spectacles took on an ovalish shape. I remember someone asking in the GN Society for the dimensions of these spectacles but don't recall there being any answers.

Thanks for the ideas chaps. I think Earlswood's comment about the scarcity of drawings being to do with the fairly complex evolution of the class. I'm happy I know what I'm building - J13/J52 built at Doncaster from one of the batches produced c1901 under Ivatt.

The Alan Sibley drawing in MRJ 35 is almost a foot too short for the loco I'm looking to build and I'm not convinced by the area forward of the leading axle. I've also found an old Skinley drawing, but 'nuff said! I think it's going to be the Ace kits drawing and plenty of photos!

Regards,

Vernpn

I have heard that the J52 is one of the better ACE kits, but I can't now recall who told me that (or whether he'd built it). What are its origins, can you tell from the etches?

Probably a good idea to go through RCTS Vol 8A. With a bit of reading one can work out a lot of the dimensional differences. For the J54 project I've drawn up a spreadsheet with the differences between the old Hornby model I'm starting from, and the particular loco of the 634 series I'm trying to get to. There are a lot of differences between the series.

So, pictures of the particular locomotive, and a lot of plotting and deduction!

Fine for a winter evening!

I reckon the kit looks fairly good Jonathan. It might even be an Ace original because it's got the half-etched areas for forming the rounded cab roof and the saddle tank. Needless to say, I'll be filling the half-etches in with thin brass to get an even curve with no shoulders. The etches are all marked as Ace except on one which holds a Stirling era cab front and back which is marked as Earl Marischal Models.

I'll let you know how it goes but don't hold your breath!

Cheers,

Vernon

drmditch wrote:Probably a good idea to go through RCTS Vol 8A. With a bit of reading one can work out a lot of the dimensional differences. For the J54 project I've drawn up a spreadsheet with the differences between the old Hornby model I'm starting from, and the particular loco of the 634 series I'm trying to get to. There are a lot of differences between the series.

So, pictures of the particular locomotive, and a lot of plotting and deduction!

Fine for a winter evening!

I've had a good look at RCTS 8A and at RCTS Groves, plus the Yeadon volume. You're right there's plenty to take in!

jwealleans wrote:I have heard that the J52 is one of the better ACE kits, but I can't now recall who told me that (or whether he'd built it). What are its origins, can you tell from the etches?

Possibly me, I have one of these in the stash and it was Ken Mason (Jazz) who recommended it as being one of Ace's better kit's to me some time ago.

I've just had a look try Isinglass Drawings. Don't do a drawing but have some GA's.

Hi Pebbles, thanks for looking, I had checked. I've just discovered that I might be able to get at some GAs courtesy of a friend. Rgds, Vernon

Good morning all

Like DRM, I produce spreadsheets of loco differences etc., under lamps burning midnight oil.

However, I have not yet produced one for the J52 family.

I have recently started one for the J3/4 family, and it's needing a lot of work.

Earlswood nob

I too thought that the late John Edgson might have done a J52, but apparently not. So I got started on one, based on the following NRM drawings (unfortunately I don't see how to put the image up on this website short of finding out how to access my web pages. Perhaps this will work:
Note that although dimensionally accurate, it is incomplete, and for the 921 series (as originally built by the GNR; it will become classified as J53 by the LNER). Also the hornblock bolts (in red) are for the later 1201 series.
)

GAs:

P-35 "Stirling 921 series", P-40 "Ivatt 1201 series" Corrected

Frame drawing:

O-40 "Ivatt 1201 series"

Valve gear:

K-51 "BR re-tracing of inside motion for all GNR slide valve engines"

J53 to J52 conversions cab front:

W-226N "The oval window version"

The basic versions are:

• Stirling 921 series: springs above axleboxes, timber sandwich front buffer beams
• Ivatt intermediate series (just two engines) 111 and 155(A)
• Ivatt 1210 series: underslung springs, steel front buffer beams.
• J53 conversions: thinner cabs; narrower footplate