Class J52 Scale Drawing

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Horsetan
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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by Horsetan » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:31 pm

john coffin wrote:....Remember that with the Hornby "J52" it was originally designed to go on a Jinty chassis so by definition it will not be correct in many details.
Mainly Trains did correct a fair few of these deficiencies with their scale chassis (correct wheelbase) and detail kit.

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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by john coffin » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Fascinating, a group of locos ie saddle tanks that lasted into the 1950's against two that did not get to the second world war.

The 0-8-2T is pretty easy, although there are a number of variants which means at least two kits, and possibly three.

However, the 0-8-0 is more of a problem in one specific area, the front firebox corners where there are washout plugs/hand holds
and secondly, the open area between firebox and smokebox between the frames. In this modern day of some people wanting superdetail,
how do we resolve the inside motion issue?? Given the comments people make about the wrong position of the reverser on Walschearts,
I wonder whether a static interior motion would be acceptable?

Wonder whether this is a way of sorting out a resin or cast metal firebox?

Paul

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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by Hatfield Shed » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:43 pm

The s/h availability of a flawed RTR J52 which is easily repowered with something better, and the impending arrival of what looks to be a decent RTR J50, suggests to me that it is not the best timing for this subject.

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notascoobie
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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by notascoobie » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:47 pm

Hatfield Shed wrote:The s/h availability of a flawed RTR J52 which is easily repowered with something better, and the impending arrival of what looks to be a decent RTR J50, suggests to me that it is not the best timing for this subject.
I started this thread because I want to build a 7mm J52. I'm not looking to buy a "flawed s/h one" neither do I want a RTR one. Don't understand why my timing is bad. Please explain.

Vernon

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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by jwealleans » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:39 pm

I think HS is referring to the idea of a new kit which was floated.

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notascoobie
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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by notascoobie » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:50 pm

You're probably right Jonathan. Thread creep followed by a generalising comment makes for such fun. Perhaps HS will explain.

Even if that's the case, not everyone wants a RTR loco - some people enjoy modelling for modelling's sake. Like you Jonathan I think. Further downstream I'm looking to build a Stirling Single. Not sure if it'll be 4mm or 7mm yet - I've got a set of cast iron wheels for 7mm and I have an etched kit for 4mm. If it's 4mm I'll do it because I want to, despite a 4mm RTR being on the way.

:D

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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by dlester » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:54 pm

notascoobie wrote:You're probably right Jonathan. Thread creep followed by a generalising comment makes for such fun. Perhaps HS will explain.

Even if that's the case, not everyone wants a RTR loco - some people enjoy modelling for modelling's sake. Like you Jonathan I think. Further downstream I'm looking to build a Stirling Single. Not sure if it'll be 4mm or 7mm yet - I've got a set of cast iron wheels for 7mm and I have an etched kit for 4mm. If it's 4mm I'll do it because I want to, despite a 4mm RTR being on the way.

:D
I think people are getting the wrong idea.

The question as far as I'm concerned is: is it easier to order a photo-etch or do it by scratch-build.
My requirements are that it is accurate and for P4. Having done this I might as well inform -- say --
LRM, so that they can make things commercially available.

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notascoobie
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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by notascoobie » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:20 pm

dlester wrote:
notascoobie wrote:You're probably right Jonathan. Thread creep followed by a generalising comment makes for such fun. Perhaps HS will explain.

Even if that's the case, not everyone wants a RTR loco - some people enjoy modelling for modelling's sake. Like you Jonathan I think. Further downstream I'm looking to build a Stirling Single. Not sure if it'll be 4mm or 7mm yet - I've got a set of cast iron wheels for 7mm and I have an etched kit for 4mm. If it's 4mm I'll do it because I want to, despite a 4mm RTR being on the way.

:D
I think people are getting the wrong idea.

The question as far as I'm concerned is: is it easier to order a photo-etch or do it by scratch-build.
My requirements are that it is accurate and for P4. Having done this I might as well inform -- say --
LRM, so that they can make things commercially available.
That wasn't the question I posed but since you've gone there, I'm sure if you tell John Redrup what to do he'll do exactly what you tell him. And with John Coffin on the thread I'm sure he'll get cracking on the artwork straight away.

Alternatively, you might like to get modelling and build what you want yourself from what's already there.

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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by JASd17 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:55 pm

Vernon,

I understand your difficulties. Would past modellers have been put off, if they knew nothing commercially of the exact prototype you wish to create had been produced?

I have seen examples of your models, they are first-rate. I am convinced Malcolm Crawley did, and would have produced, a one-off even if he thought there was no market for an etch.

Is scratch building something that is being lost to the hobby? After all Atlantic 3279 cannot resin-ate everywhere.

John

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notascoobie
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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by notascoobie » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:11 am

JASd17 wrote:Vernon,

I understand your difficulties. Would past modellers have been put off, if they knew nothing commercially of the exact prototype you wish to create had been produced?

I have seen examples of your models, they are first-rate. I am convinced Malcolm Crawley did, and would have produced, a one-off even if he thought there was no market for an etch.

Is scratch building something that is being lost to the hobby? After all Atlantic 3279 cannot resin-ate everywhere.

John
Thanks for your kind words John.

One of the great things about our hobby is its breadth. The hobby encompasses everyone from the most fastidious scratchbuilder to the out-of-the-box modeller. in a variety of gauges and scales. There are folks who particularly enjoy different parts of the hobby - maybe building locos or stock, electrics, scenery or operation. I get all that and it makes it the great hobby that it is. I guess what I don't get is the sense of entitlement some seem to have that whatever they want will be provided by our supportive traders.

Part of the fun for me is constantly stretching myself to learn new skills and to use them in my modelling. If there's something I want and it doesn't exist then either I'll go without or I'll have a go making it myself. As a youngster I was amazed by the competence of leading lights in the hobby, particularly the Manchester group and they could be very approachable and happy to demonstrate things at shows. Seeing their work encouraged me to try to improve my own. As an aside, at the recent Wigan exhibition, the highlight for me was the showcase of 4mm models by the late Ross Pochin featuring FR and M&C prototypes. Exquisite.

I know my version of the hobby differs from others' and I know exasperation comes with advancing years so please don't think I'm being grumpy, it's just that I don't get it.

Cheers,

Vernon

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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by Hatfield Shed » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:42 pm

notascoobie wrote:You're probably right Jonathan. Thread creep followed by a generalising comment makes for such fun. Perhaps HS will explain...
Explanation. Just enjoying the conversation. Sometimes these are apt to be discursive. Will try and remember to stay out of your threads from now on.

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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by john coffin » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:53 pm

Malcolm did indeed scratch build stuff, particularly things which were unlikely to be "mass appeal", but his initial kits, which are now in the LRM range were originally made for George Norton, who lovely man that he was, was not noted for decent instructions.

What I have tried to do with the kits I have designed is make them easier, and hopefully with better instructions, but also to get away from the overwhelming preponderance of Gresley locos. Ivatt and indeed many Stirling locos are unlikely to be mass produced, so the choice is either scratch build, or gauge demand for a kit. We already have a couple of saddle tanks in the pipeline, but they need test building, which is always a pain, since I have to get someone other than me to build them, otherwise who knows what mistakes I might perpetuate? But why test build a kit which may never be required???

What I am prepared to consider though is providing some scaled drawings for those who would be interested, subject to timing, they will of course be computer drawn, so not have the unique character John Edgson's however, at least I would not have to do an individual drawing for each scale!
I d not have all the saddle tanks, but many of them going back to about 1875, so it should be reasonable to create a decent picture of their evolution.

I do agree with Vernon though, we all have our specialties, but if you want something special you have to expect it will require a certain input of some skills which seem to be missing from some people. I guess because we have little need for such skills in the outside world, which was different when many of us were younger.

Paul

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notascoobie
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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by notascoobie » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:29 pm

Hatfield Shed wrote:
notascoobie wrote:You're probably right Jonathan. Thread creep followed by a generalising comment makes for such fun. Perhaps HS will explain...
Explanation. Just enjoying the conversation. Sometimes these are apt to be discursive. Will try and remember to stay out of your threads from now on.
No need to keep out. If your comments had been a little more specific I might not have jumped to the wrong conclusion. Alternatively if I'd read them again I might have realised that. :D

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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by Pebbles » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:34 pm

I've just dug out the drawing I got from John it's annotated J52/2. It's clearly an Ivatt model not rebuilt from a Stirling.

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Re: Class J52 Scale Drawing

Post by john coffin » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:05 pm

Having checked the Doncaster list, I cannot find W226 Dlester, where did you find it please?
Be interested in anything else you have to suggest too

Paul

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