Oxfordrail LNER Cattle wagon

[UpDistant]

I've also noted some numbering anomalies etc. I came to the conclusion that there's a glitch in the top table on p290 - look at Diagram 122 for instance - 700 built in 1937, yet they have apparently "disappeared" by 1940.

[adrianbs]

Hi Updistant Agree, Peter T. is not quite sure what the explanation is but I'm guessing Dia 122 Vac fitted wagons were lumped into the total for dia 39 and perhaps there were more built or converted than the figures indicate. The missing proof of any unfitted 9'wb wagons receiving BR livery would be nice as well. Geoff Kent illustrates two 10' conversions caught by Ted West and yet there were supposedly only 2 anyway and there are NO MORE LNER cattles in the whole Wessex collection says Mike King. Seems weird that he snapped those two and no others, not even those built with 10'wb.

[adrianbs]

Hi All Mike King mentioned to me that there was a drawing by E.B. Trotter in the MRC which had not come up on my floppy disk index and eventually I tracked it down to MAR 65 MRC. I was slightly disappointed to find it looked like a Diagram 26 version with no top doors but then noticed it was a 10'wb rebuild in BR bauxite livery numbered 146202. OK thought I, Peter T does list 7 rebuilds to 10'wb so this must be one of them. Then I checked the number and it was not in the Dia 26 block but in the diagram 25(i) block of unfitted wagons. Most of these wagons were rebuilt as fitted Conflat V wagons but perhaps some were rebuilt as 10'wb fitted cattle wagons which might account for the missing quantity of these in the total. Tatlow 4b states there are NIL of diagram 25(i) in 1940 but here is one of that batch still in existence presumably in the early to mid 1950s (alas the photo is not dated )
Quite possibly the 1947 census figures do not discriminate by door design but simply by fitted or unfitted and perhaps some of the conflat conversions from diagram 26 and 40 were replaced by upgrading the unfitted diagram 25(i) with new solebars in the knowledge that the 9'wb versions were already beginning to show signs of distortion. The other anomaly in the numbers built according to Tatlow 4b is that in the upper table the numbers built to dias 25(i), 26, 39 and 40 do not correspond at all to the numbers built in the lower table. I have no explanation for this at the moment.

[John Palmer]

It probably does not assist in determining the diagram of the wagon drawn and photographed by E.B. Trotter, but I note that the joint between the diagonal framing and the door posts of E146202 was reinforced by both metal and wooden gussets. Somewhat similar metal gussets can be seen in the photograph in Tatlow 4b of E137513. Were these an in-service modification, perhaps introduced to counter the hogging to which these vehicles were prone?

[adrianbs]

Hi John It does appear to be an in service mod until the 1937 batch of 10'wb wagons appeared which seem to have these plates from new. The lack of "In service" dated photos makes it difficult to know when older vehicles began to be fitted but it may well date from about 1937, or perhaps slightly before, which had filtered down from the repair department to the designers as a necessary upgrade for the new batch. A repair schedule would have been drawn up for all older wagons as they went through works. It may have even happened around 1932 when the first conversions to conflats occurred, the cattle wagons, perhaps already showing signs of distress, would have been less prone to problems without the heavy body and with more central loading from the short containers. The shortage of in service pictures is a problem although the ex works photos are numerous and excellent.

[adrianbs]

Hi All The other anomaly that needs explaining is the conversions mentioned on page 285 of Tatlow 4b. where 250 + 229 + 381 + 42 unfitted cattles were converted to fitted. If these were solely post group LNER design wagons that pretty much accounts for every one of the unfitted wagons built to diagrams 25(i) and 40 i.e. all of the unfitted LNER design wagons built that were not converted to conflats. This may well explain why there are no unfitted standard cattle wagons after 1937. Only 9'wb and 10'wb fitted wagons may have still been in use covering both GN style and LNER style door variants with both types having both wheelbases. This might just be embarrassing for modellers with 4mm or 7mm unfitted wagons in use after 1938 !!
This includes me although I have a ready remedy in hand for converting my 7mm unfitted wagons even though they may need a repaint into bauxite.
It may well explain the lack of photos and some previous anomalies but not the fact that there are 592 unfitted wagons in the 1947 census !!!???

[adrianbs]

Hi all, Does anyone have access to a copy of a LNER diagram book after about 1937 which might throw light on whether the diagrams were changed to reflect the conversions of unfitted to fitted vehicles.

[mick b]

Cattle Wagon due in July with the NBR wagon , LNER 6 plank wagon in August , info today via email from Oxford today .

New wagons coming soon too a announcement this saturday , plus info on further releases doesn't say what they might be.

[D2100]

New wagons coming soon too a announcement this saturday , plus info on further releases doesn't say what they might be.

BR Carflat conversion on LMS underframe, so not directly of LNER interest. Otherwise just more liveries on existing or forthcoming models.

[adrianbs]

Hi All Even at this stage there appears to be a significant error on the Carflat although it is early days yet as the model is still only in the CAD stage this time rather than the Pre-pro stage. Perhaps this time OR have decided to give the experts a chance to comment BEFORE they cut metal instead of afterwards when in has been too late to do much. An interesting project which I looked at about 40 years ago after having made all the patterns for both fully detailed BR underframes. In those days there were virtually no 4mm scale cars suitable as loads, just the odd Matchbox model. This should boost Oxford's model cars sales, especially if those modellers planning to add a full length carflat or Motorail train to their layouts, fully load them with cars.

[52D]

Do i sense more Scottishness here with the release of the car flats, they were well known and often pictured on the Waverley route, just hope Oxford release a nice NBR Atlantic tank to keep a Scottish theme going.

[adrianbs]

Hi all, The first production pictures of the new BR version of the Oxford rail Cattle wagon have now appeared on the Rails of Sheffield site and my worst fears have been realised. They have not listened to anyone regarding the errors shown on the Toy fair samples and we have a model which, as predicted, has two identical body sides, no plank on the top of the sides to take the partition, incorrect running numbers, brake levers without clutch detail and too far away from the vee hanger, at least one vacuum pipe of the wrong hand, and a strangely positioned steam pipe if that is what it is intended to be. In addition some of the lettering is miss-positioned and the branding XP has been applied which would not be found on a 9' wheelbase wagon, indeed my latest researches seem to indicate that it is likely that all LNER cattle wagons were converted to 10'wb vacuum brakes before the war or rebuilt as " Conflat V " wagons if they still had 9'wb. Most surprising of all is that, like the sample earlier, there is NO Vacuum Cylinder shown at all.
It does seem that the research and design team at Oxfordrail are totally unwilling to listen to the comments of critics and, like all their previous models for the UK market, believe the general public will buy whatever they make irrespective of accuracy. Sadly I suspect they may well be right.

[mick b]

Link here

https://railsofsheffield.com/oxford-rai ... 30374.aspx


If that is the production version it is a sadly a disaster.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Adrian, could you bullet point what's wrong with the model if possible.

I'm curious as I am looking at photographs and would like to know what I'm looking for. It doesn't seem as fine a model as some of Bachmann's rolling stock in my view, but I'm always willing to give the manufacturers a chance at the very least.

[mick b]

The main one is that it has the same sides on both sides e.g look at the partition slots on the sides at the bottom, one should be on the left and one on the right side . They are both on the left end on the model. After that error nothing else really matters !!