Oxfordrail 4-plank wagons

[teaky]

Some interesting looking NB and PO wagons.

http://www.oxfordrail.com/76/OR76MW4.htm

[Hatfield Shed]

The four plank job is the NBR's 'Jubilee' wagon. Now it's a good numerous subject alright, but extinct in real terms by the BR period. And they are offering it in NBR livery. With the previous messages from OR stressing the development of a full range, to a mapped out plan: it would appear Scotland is on that map. What sort of NBR loco might they planning as traction? Come into the garden, ..... .

[adrianbs]

Hi All Sadly, like all the previous models by OR, they seem to have made their own interpretation of the prototype with only an overall passing resemblance to the actual wagons. The finer details such as the positioning of most of the bolts and the end door hinge loop design seem to have been left to the discretion of someone without access to either Mr Hooper's or Mr Tatlow's excellent publications or the General arrangement drawing.
The cost of correctly positioning these details can hardly be much more than getting them wrong but fortunately the Wizard Models version appears to be far better, albeit only in kit form. From what has been said by OR there appears to be very little likelihood of any changes so the more enlightened LNER or NBR enthusiast will be back to kit building for the foreseeable future. They will no doubt sell in droves to those who do not worry about the standards of models they buy but just want pretty wagons at low prices. Not really a great step forward for Scottish or pregroup modellers especially as those with such specialised interests are more likely to want models of at least the quality of existing kits.

[adrianbs]

Hi All Having checked the actual PO liveries on offer at least two have been produced before by Hornby or Bachmann and, as previously, they are not liveries found on this design of wagon. The Hamilton Palace version I cannot source but my suspicions have obviously been aroused which is more than I can say for my enthusiasm towards this 19th century design wagon. Once again they have ignored the potential of accurate pre group or even pre 1907 RCH PO designs in favour of freelance models of even earlier vintage.
Edit. The Hamilton Palace livery has now been checked and again is not on a wagon of this design so apart from the NB livery and possible other liveries these PO styles do not apply. If OR had made an accurate model of a different NBR wagon things might have been different. This livery has also been produced on a model by Hornby. So, NOT authentic, NOT accurate and NOT original.

[J Yoder]

The cost of correctly positioning these details can hardly be much more than getting them wrong but fortunately the Wizard Models version appears to be far better, albeit only in kit form. From what has been said by OR there appears to be very little likelihood of any changes so the more enlightened LNER or NBR enthusiast will be back to kit building for the foreseeable future. They will no doubt sell in droves to those who do not worry about the standards of models they buy but just want pretty wagons at low prices. Not really a great step forward for Scottish or pregroup modellers especially as those with such specialised interests are more likely to want models of at least the quality of existing kits.

In the States, we call this precision to detail "rivet counting."

I gather these are diecast cars -- how difficult would it correct the fine detail accuracy issues? Could one shave off the bolts and replace them with the resin rivet transfers?

Even if the detailed particulars are wrong, are the general dimensions correct so that this car could be upgraded to a more accurate model?

[adrianbs]

,Hi 3 Yoder They are Plastic but should it be necessary to replace most of the bolts and then repaint the affected areas, especially as some of these areas are lettered ??. Possibly some of the more dedicated might do this but most purchasers claim they could never build even the simplest of kits so I guess this would be way beyond their skills ?? As the PO liveries may all be incorrect for the design I would assume the rivet counters would not buy them anyway. I have built my business to some extent on counting "Rivets" but more importantly getting them in the right place and more or less the right size to give the desired appearance. I believe it's called precision engineering by those who appreciate fine detail and "rivet counting" by those who don't.

[J Yoder]

I appreciate high quality ("precision engineering") modelling.
I appreciate passion and perfecting a craft.
I appreciate discussion about a model's shortfalls and how to improve it.

I don't understand contempt for people who aren't modelling railways the same way I am.

[adrianbs]

Hi 3 Yoder I appreciate your support, at least I hope that is what it is, as I have no idea what way you are modelling. Anyone who knows about sticking rivets on things is probably a precision engineer and therefore a man after my own heart.

[adrianbs]

Hi All Having completed my research into these 4 OR models. as the pre-pros currently stand, my opinion is that they are all, in the words of another contributor, "A Total Dog" The base model has only a passing resemblance to the NBR Diagram 26 (16b) incorporating, as it does, various features of the NBR diagram 1. The large numbers of detail and dimensional errors have spoilt what would have been an interesting but not important 4mm wagon.
The 3 private owner versions certainly have 4 wheels and buffers, end doors, axleboxes etc in common with the prototypes on which they are based but since they should be Caledonian Railway wagons to diagrams 22 or 46 that is where the similarity ends. One of the other interesting features seems to be that some of the physical detail on the PO versions is just going to be printed on. It appears that the solebar detail that is missing on the NBR version has appeared on the PO versions as printed images. They might have done better to do the same for the rest of the detail but then I assume most modellers are not really quite ready yet for a return to pre-war standards with tin-printed bodies.

[adrianbs]

Hi All Two new 4 plank PO liveries have been announced by Oxfordrail but alas, like the previous 3, they are no more authentic, neither looking much like the prototypes on which they are based. About as realistic as painting an LMS Black 5 in green and calling it a GWR "County". OOPS perhaps I should not have said that in case it gives OR any ideas !!. The two new liveries for the NBR 4 plank are United and Newbattle which are plates 107 and 103 in " Private Owner Wagons Vol 4" by Bill Hudson
Yesterday I emailed Tim Mulhall at OR to see if there were any tooling upgrades in progess on this wagon and the LNER Cattle and 6 plank open, it will be interesting to see what sort of response I get. I will report back if anything of interest is disclosed.

[adrianbs]

Hi All Like the Cattle wagon, Rails of Sheffield now have the NBR 4 Plank in stock. Unsurprisingly, like the cattle, they have not corrected any of the errors mentioned in my posts above which, for the sake of brevity, I will not repeat. Yet another sad waste of expensive tooling from the point of view of the "More Discerning Modeller" and probably another nail in Hornby's coffin. Perhaps those contemplating purchase should consider that.

[James Harrison]

I bought one; it arrived today. In all honesty at about £9.50 I can live with the faults; it will be slightly weathered and ultimately live on a model railway as a piece of working rolling stock. Had it been a case of spending hundreds of pounds on a locomotive which is then wrong it would have been a different kettle of fish.

Initial impressions of the model are that it is at least as good as some Bachmann/ Hornby wagons I have seen on sale for £3 or £4 more (I recently bought a Hornby coke wagon in GCR colours, and that was a total dog- and it cost somewhere north of £12).

If you're looking for a finescale model at toy train prices- this isn't for you. If you're looking for some decent new tooling stock for layout use- perfectly acceptable.

[adrianbs]

Hi All James H. is of course right when he says that many Bachmann, Hornby, and I would also add Dapol, wagons are little better or indeed worse than the Oxfordrail NBR 4 plank. In almost every case the tooling goes back decades, indeed much of Dapol's wagon tooling goes back to Hornby DUBLO before 1964. I don't think that is a good excuse for making wagons from brand new tooling where, in the case of this wagon, 40 Nuts/bolts are completely missing out of 222 and about 80 of the remainder are seriously misplaced. 14 washer plates on the solebars and end stanchions are missing and the iron hoop door hinges are completely inaccurate. The corner plates are about 20% too narrow and the underframe detail is lacking in a number of places. Oxfordrail have made a number of claims about the standard they are working to but I don't remember any mention that they were only aiming to improve (very debatable anyway) on 50 year old toys. They are not doing proper research, they refuse to take notice of any critical assessment and as a result they will likely go the same way as Airfix, Mainline and Lima.

[adrianbs]

Hi All I wonder why some individuals do video reviews of products when it is quite clear they have not taken the trouble to research the prototypes and compare it with the model. Indeed they have clearly not even bothered to look for comments on other internet sites which might give them some information, even if they have not got access to any of the necessary reference material themselves. To the better informed their comments almost appear to be the sort of thing that a sales representative of the company would trot out. Glossing over most of the faults and suggesting any they do comment about may well be OK because information is not available to be sure, is embarrassingly naive to the better informed. Totally misleading statements are made which clearly show either complete lack of knowledge or worse still a desire to hide the truth. If such statements were made with the backing of the manufacturers they could easily be sailing very close to the wind with regard to current consumer protection laws, a point which has been mentioned elsewhere.

[adrianbs]

Hi All Has anyone reading this forum got one of these OR models. If so, could you determine if the stanchions at the fixed end are removable and, when removed are they in slots in the bodywork or do they just fit into peg holes. If the planking continues uninterrupted behind the stanchions it would be possible to correct the position so that they have a gap of 8mm between them. OR have, as I previously suggested, mixed up the Dia 1 design with this NB diagram 26 and the stanchion spacing is clearly way out on the model as a result. In fact the stanchions appear to be too close together even for the Dia 1 version. The GA for the latter gives 1' 10" i.e. 7.33mm and this is consistent with the fact that the more modern version is 2" wider than it's predecessor. Similarly the side door width and O/A length increased by 6" and the wheelbase by 12" on the enlarged design.