Hornby B12

[Atlantic 3279]

Are the pipes explained in any way by analogy with the D16s?

[teaky]

Are the pipes explained in any way by analogy with the D16s?

They certainly look like the D16 pipes.

None of the post-war photographs of B12/3s show the pipes.

I wonder if they are actually just covers? Ignoring locomotives with Lenz gear and ACFI apparatus, they seem to coincide with the position of thin pipes in a number of other photographs.

[31A]

The pipe which emerges from low down on the smokebox on the LNER green version is the supply to the exhaust steam injector; as such, it was only on the left hand (fireman's) side of the loco (although I think the Triang model had it on both sides!), and from about 1945 according to the RCTS Green Book "these injectors were arranged to run on live steam only pending their complete removal by new injectors of the live steam type". So, after the very early BR period, these pipes were then absent until the end of the locos' lives. The box-like device below the running plate is also connected with this.

[teaky]

Thank you 31A.

I had stored my B12 away but have just dug it out and checked and, as you say, it is only on the left.

Would I be correct in assuming that all B12/3s had this feature in LNER days? It certainly holds true for all the photographs in LNER livery in LI no. 77 where one can see enough of the left hand side.

[31A]

Not sure, to be honest, Teaky! The RCTS book implies that all B12/3s had this arrangement in LNER days. I've been looking at a lot of pictures of B12s recently (including LI 77) and as you say, all the pictures of B12/3s showing the left hand side in LNER livery seem to show them. I thought I'd seen one in early BR days with the pipe visible but can't find it now! The M&GN Society's book "B12s Remembered" has several pictures from the late 40's / early 50s and in each case the pipes are absent, so perhaps they were quite quick at removing them! When I next see the Book Law stand at an exhibition I'll see if they've got the relevant Yeadon's, which at the moment I don't have.

[65447]

Would I be correct in assuming that all B12/3s had this feature in LNER days? It certainly holds true for all the photographs in LNER livery in LI no. 77 where one can see enough of the left hand side.

No - although frustratingly most of the photographs are of the RHS, there are enough in Yeadon volume 7 of the LHS of B12/3s in LNER days that do not have the pipe to confirm that assumption as false. Which is was why I pondered if there was a specific combination of circumstances that led to it being present on a limited number of the class during a certain period.

[Atlantic 3279]

I'm glad somebody has confirmed the relationship to the injectors. Memory suggested that as the explanation for both the B12s and D16s.

[teaky]

Thanks again gentlemen. This forum rarely disappoints.

This is something that I will keep an eye out for. I have rifled through most of the books I have which I thought might feature B12 photographs but nothing of note has come to light. The copy of Locomotives Illustrated is still the best reference I have. I don't own any Yeadons or green books.

Based on JASd17's post I will probably opt for renumbering to one of 8512, 8514, 8522 and 8527 with 8527 being the most likely. The pipe cover can stay for the time being. I have not tried to remove it but it looks like it would simply unclip anyway should a photograph of the LHS of 8527 come to light showing no cover. Failing that, I may just have run it clockwise only.

[RayS]

Very pleased with first runs of my two BR examples - quiet and smooth. Must dig out my old R150(?) for retirement installation in museum cabinet and comparison. 45/- she cost me in 1965 vs £150 odd now! The old X04 keeps going, and with Romford wheels she didn't look too bad - and she was a first RTR for GE area modellers. Can't bear to part with her so she joins old HD models in the cabinet.
Ray S

[JASd17]

Not sure, to be honest, Teaky! The RCTS book implies that all B12/3s had this arrangement in LNER days. I've been looking at a lot of pictures of B12s recently (including LI 77) and as you say, all the pictures of B12/3s showing the left hand side in LNER livery seem to show them. I thought I'd seen one in early BR days with the pipe visible but can't find it now! The M&GN Society's book "B12s Remembered" has several pictures from the late 40's / early 50s and in each case the pipes are absent, so perhaps they were quite quick at removing them! When I next see the Book Law stand at an exhibition I'll see if they've got the relevant Yeadon's, which at the moment I don't have.

Yeadon's Register confirms that from 1945 the exhaust steam injector on the LHS was replaced by a live steam type. Teaky I am sure the pipe stays on your pre-war LNER era model.

It is also therefore correctly missing on Hornby's 61533.

John

[teaky]

Thanks John.

I'll be able to run it anti-clockwise now too.