Hornsby Q6

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mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by mick b »

S.A.C. Martin wrote:I am guessing - but I can check with my source later today.

I feel Hornby had prepared this tooling - the other boiler type is a separate tooling and that may not be ready (my impression is that it isn't, but this could be wrong and I am happy to go back and clarify that).

They always release an LNER liveried model with the LNER locomotive releases so if the other boiler type wasn't ready, then logic dictates you make the best of what you have for the first release. So they've picked perhaps a not atypical representation of the class but nevertheless one which is reasonably representative of a specific class member to cover the LNER livery variant.

As I say, I am guessing there - but it's an educated guess based on the conversations I've had and the knowledge of the process I have now. I am happy to go back and clarify that for you Mick if you would like?

RE the smokebox door, I would be happy to check this at the weekend for you when I start writing up my blog good and proper. RE the mechanical oil drive - I don't know the answer to this but I will ask and am happy to do so.


Thanks for the offer the photo will answer the door and chimney query. The Oil drive I believe was a BR fitting as said in a earlier post.

Good news if a pre war version will appear in due course . If they bit the bullet and did a NER Green version that would sell in bucket loads IMHO.
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tomburnham
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by tomburnham »

Mick,
It would be unfortunate if the Q6 was ever produced in NER Green as this would be a totally fictitious livery. I think you are confusing the NER T2 (Q6) with the NER T/T1 (Q5) of which all but the final two locomotives appeared in Saxony Green livery complete with brass-topped chimneys, brass collars at the front of the boilers and tall brass safety valve covers. Actually it would not be too difficult for Hornby to produce a Q5 as it shared the same chassis with the Q6 albeit with a shorter overhang after the last driving wheel and a smaller boiler. Perhaps that's too much to hope for but it would look rather resplendent.
Tom.
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mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by mick b »

tomburnham wrote:Mick,
It would be unfortunate if the Q6 was ever produced in NER Green as this would be a totally fictitious livery. I think you are confusing the NER T2 (Q6) with the NER T/T1 (Q5) of which all but the final two locomotives appeared in Saxony Green livery complete with brass-topped chimneys, brass collars at the front of the boilers and tall brass safety valve covers. Actually it would not be too difficult for Hornby to produce a Q5 as it shared the same chassis with the Q6 albeit with a shorter overhang after the last driving wheel and a smaller boiler. Perhaps that's too much to hope for but it would look rather resplendent.
Tom.

Thanks for that , I was thinking of the one I presumed was a Q6 on Bramblewick a few years ago it must have been a Q5 in that case. In the old days a Crownline conversion kit would have been possibility !!.
S.A.C. Martin

Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

I feel I must also quantify that I haven't got access to Hornby's source photographs - but I've been pointed in the right direction. I think potentially a different number could have been chosen and it would have been perfectly representative. I have had a look at the oil drive issue and they appear to have started fitting them to the Q6s in and around 1947/8/9.

Tail rods appear to be removed on an ad hoc basis from the mid forties but from the photos I'm looking at, more Q6s kept the tail rods up to 1950 when they started removing them on mass than didn't. So on that point 3418 is probably not very representative of the condition most of the class were in in the late 1940s.

The smokebox door is not an issue as far as I;m concerned - there's enough evidence to show the type used on the model was on more than just a few engines. The chimney and the windjabber/capuchon issue is a take it or leave it issue - I've found a couple of engines without them, several with them but heavily damaged, and a few which clearly have them in the late 1940s. You takes your pick and makes your choice.

I'll go into more detail on the blog but I feel the model is probably very representative of a specific few class members and not of the largest number it could be - but then that in itself is not the end of the world as we all have a chance now to convince Hornby to make a very representative one with the next LNER release.
Pebbles
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by Pebbles »

Some ten years or more ago I prepared a table to illustrate the changes between C7s and Q6s during the prewar period, from that table here is the following.

1247 to 1363 - (3340 to 3363) all were equipped with 3940 gal tenders when built, there is a note that 1261(3349) did have a tender change 01/38 but to a tender of the same capacity.

The following apparently received exchanged 3940 gal tenders at the dates shown.

2230 (3387) - 10/1937, 2231 (3388) - 5/1937, 2245 (3402) - 12/1937, 2256 (3413) - 10/1937, 2258 (3415) - 01/1938

2261 (3418) was originally equipped with a 4125 self trimming tender but changed this for a 4125 gal non self trimming tender with old style frames 04/32.

I have no details of what may have occurred after 1940 and certainly not post war, one can only go by photos. Others may know how to differentiate. but other than in the heights of their tanks, 4ft 3 ins for 3940 gal and 4ft 9 ins 4125 gal non self trimming tenders with old style frames, both types look very similar.
Last edited by Pebbles on Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Phil
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by Phil »

The Hornby 'Handbook' states that the project brief for the Q6 was to produce the model in its post 1930 condition. If so it would appear to allow for both dia. 50 and dia. 50A versions but that both would carry the Gresley type anti vacuum valve since this seems to have been the only visible change made from that date onward
mick b
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by mick b »

One has been broken down down on RM web, owner states Chimney and Dome are separate mouldings ,his are well glued in .
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ArthurK
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by ArthurK »

Converting a Hornby Q6 to a Q5 is not that easy as much of the upper structure has to be dumped into the scrap bin. The boiler as well as being smaller diameter is also shorter. That means that the entire cab has to be sawn off and moved forward by one foot (4mm). Then throw away the cab front as the roof profile is incorrect (along with the windows). At the front we must dispose of the smokebox saddle and reprofile the upper frames. Then build a new smokebox. The chassis is also 4mm shorter at the rear so carve that off as well. And what has the latter butchery done to the tender connection?

Of course not having access to the actual model I have no knowledge of how the mechanism fits in with the rest. It may not be possible to fit it back after you have completed all those changes.

Why anyone would pay out for a nice model of the Q6 (reports suggest that it runs well) and set about destroying it (yes - destroying) is beyond my comprehension. If you want a Q5 that badly I can sell you a kit.

ArthurK
drmditch

Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by drmditch »

I've just returned from a difficult time away. As compensation for having time to spend time down south I did buy Hornby 3418 (although I was meaning to wait until later).

I'd forgotten that , surprise, surprise, my own Dave Alexander kit built locomotive is none other than........
Post_Q6_01.JPG
I'm fairly sure I did research the model reasonably accurately. Note though that mine does carry a windjabber, and of course no external drive to the lubricator. My 1947 database shows up a total of six locomotives with a 50A boiler and this type of tender, although I will now double check that.

I'll do some work on my second Q6, and I'll try to put better pictures up on my 'Make do and Mend' thread on the 'Model Railways' section of the forum.
S.A.C. Martin

Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

That's a beautifully built kit. What a coincidence on the number!
S.A.C. Martin

Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

Hornby Q6 Review

I hope my review lifts a few people's spirits in terms of the pre-war Q6, which Hornby is working on. Please feel free to have a read- if you have any questions, let me know.
drmditch

Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by drmditch »

After a little less than two days on my workbench, my Hornby LNER Q6 has re-emerged as No. 3394 sometime in 1947.
Post_Q6_05.JPG

Source information comes from 'Green Book' Part 6C and Yeadon Vol23, page 83. The locomotive has a 50A Boiler, the older style of flatter smokebox door, a windjabber, and no external drive to the cylinder lubricators on the LH side. It does not have the cover plate over the cladding sheet joins along the top of the boiler. (I don't know where Hornby got this from, but since none of my other Darlington built 5'6" boilers have this feature I'm happier without it! ) My model also has (although it is not visible from this angle,) a properly painted cab interior and the characteristic NER sheeting around the firehole door. The tender has fire-iron holders and two fire-irons on top of the coal load.

The coal should be genuine County Durham coal, since it comes from my garden. It does look a bit shiny however! (More research on my local seams required), and I'm worried that perhaps some previous owner of my house filled their coal cellar with anthracite! (Seems unlikely - and this will have to do until I unpack the coal supplied from my previous residence.)

The tender has also had additional weights added.

The model needs a bit more subtle and selective weathering, and I haven't touched the buffer beams or buffers yet. My picture makes the spectacle plate look a bit 'plasticky'.

I should say that, as far as I can see, this is a very well engineered model. It comes apart easily, and the critical screws on the engine fit into captive metal threads. (not so on the tender, but still easy to dismantle.) It runs very well, and it will be interesting to compare it's haulage capacity with it's white metal stablemate. The Hornby detail that is there is excellent, including the slope on the cab floor up to the firedoor. There is much to admire on this Hornby model. I note the various controversies about it not being suitable for LNER condition, but it matches my 1946/47 requirements almost exactly.

The lubricator drive was relatively easy to remove with carefully applied Xurons and needle files. (I haven't bothered to remove the resulting 'extra washer'.)

The windjabber (no fancy foreign names here please!) was easier to make than I'd thought. A piece of plastic tube 5mm OD is almost a plug fit to the Hornby chimney. A small wrapper of thin plastic was attached to the outside top of the tube, and when all was dry, cut and filed to shape. The inner rim of the Hornby chimney was removed with a sharp scalpel for the front half of the diameter, and the new unit slid in. When everything was secure, most of the additional plastic on the inside of the chimney was removed with a rat-tail file.

The removal of the strip on the boiler top was the trickiest modification. A sharp blade, swiss files, and fibre-glass pen, together with a lot of care were required. The boiler did need to be re-painted, but my trusty mix of acrylics allowed me to do this even allowing for my very limited painting skills.

The HMRCS lettering sheets do not match the Hornby numbers, so my first idea of retaining the leading '3' didn't work. (The new one went over the top.) After limited weathering the difference between the cab and the tender doesn't show too much. My photograph shows the '9' as being too high, but the Yeadon picture may show something wrong with either the '9' or the '4' on the original anyway!

In some ways one of the BR liveried models might have made a better starting point for my requirements. However, it was probably easier and less risky to add the windjabber than to remove the BR smokebox numberplate. This latter is a task I always find difficult.

I am slightly worried about the tender. According to Part 6C, 2237 (original number) was built with the last style of 4,125 gallon tender with the curved down coal rails. It obviously doesn't have that tender in the Yeadon photograph, but is not on any of the lists for tender transfer to/from other classes. If it is a transfer from a Q5 or a B15 then the it will be too tall, and too wide. However comparison of the Yeadon photograph with mine doesn't seem to show this up. Life is too short for continuing to worry, and at the moment I think it looks like a good fellow worker for my own 3418.

Not quite sure how often a West Hartlepool engine would have traveled to my side of the ECML - but it will on my railway!
Greedy Boards
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by Greedy Boards »

Hi All

just a slight request to Hornby on their next run of producing the Raven Q6 0-8-0. Having looked in to the current LNER variant on offer, it seems, as many have pointed out, that by focussing on the LNER period; using a 50A diagram boiler; and adding a 3940 gallon tender, that this cuts down the options for a pre-war locomotive, and I find this to be true for the Middlesbrough area. If and hopefully when the next batch comes out, could we please have an LNER Q6 with 50A diagram boiler, but with a 4125 gallon tender?

Looking at Yeadon Volume 23, there are two photos of Locomotive No 2265 from 1926 (Stockton Shed 51E) with a 50 diagram boiler and a 4125 gallon tender. Another photo has 2265 ex-works from 1938 (Newport 51B) with its new 50A diagram boiler, still with its 4125 gallon tender. I don't really know if there is a 50 diagram boiler in the offing from Hornby, but if they could provide an LNER Q6 with a 4125 gallon tender, then this would provide greater flexibility, to meet pre-war requirements.

Best wishes to all, and yes, this North Easterner has bought two Q6s, with hopefully a few more to come, but bring on a J26/J27 0-6-0, and my Newport allocation will definitely be on the up!

Regards

Greedy Boards
North Eastern Matters
Daddyman
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by Daddyman »

Some pictures here of a brief conversion to my father's LNER Q6. I no longer touch anything Hornby, and if I ever do a Q6 it'll be scratchbuilt with a Bradwell tender. It certainly won't be modelled in LNER livery - these locos only ever looked good in BR standard muck livery with an orange smokebox.

But anyway, my father bought one and visiting him this weekend I couldn't bear looking at the atrocity with those spindly post-war letters, so I set about looking for a pre-war loco with a 50A boiler. A very useful post by Pebbles on page 1 (thanks!) of this thread revealed two options with the 3940 tender and 50A boiler in the 1930s. I chose 1294 for no other reason than the number was more aesthetically pleasing than 1311.

However, the chances are, this loco had a sandwich bufferbeam, so I set about making one. Interestingly, the Hornby body has a large overhang of footplate in front of the b.beam, like many ex-NE locos that have had their sandwich replaced by a steel plate. This makes the conversion easier. I stamped out some rivets on a piece of 10 thou N/S 34mmx5.7mm (the pattern of the rivets varied - I copied my father's 0-gauge J27) and backed this with a slightly smaller piece of PCB, thinned down to represent the wooden "filling" in the sandwich. I scored this at the side to represent the two planks. I happened to have some Bradwell buffers left over from a J27, and chose the variety with no wooden packing at the back, filing the collars off them. The coupling hook is by Dave Frank (Lanarkshire MS) - all I had with me.

Finally, I filed down the Hornby b.beam to make it represent the back plate of the sandwich - about 10 thou.

Other work involved removing the lubricator drive (it's screwed to the top of the chassis; you need to remove the body and wiggle a screwdriver in beneath the motor) and renumbering with HMRS (edit: forgot to say, Hornby's numbers now come off very easily). The smokebox door, incidentally, is the correct (early) one.

Windjabber still to do - need some 5.5mm diameter brass tube and don't have any with me.
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Last edited by Daddyman on Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jades
LNER N2 0-6-2T
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Re: Hornsby Q6

Post by Jades »

ArthurK wrote:For those interested in getting the Hornby Q6 63443 the following photo may be of use. Taken early 60's at Low Fell.
Nice photo! One of the bits of trivia that's stuck in my head over the years is that West Auckland shed used to like painting the circle round the smoke box handles (the correct name escapes me for the moment) white during the 50s and 60s. 63443 was shedded at West Auckland between 14/6/59 and 2/2/64. It looks like the Hornby model is of it when it was still at Haverton Hill (51G).
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