Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

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Nova
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by Nova » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:53 pm

adrianbs wrote: One of them has even been expertly weathered with LIME WASH, a material which was outlawed 10 years before they were built !! In fact even the earlier 9' wb wagons were very unlikely to have been treated with this nasty white disinfectant as they were built after it was banned around 1927. It had not been used generally since about 1924 when a clear solution of carbolic disinfectant became widely available.
hate to divert the topic, but why was Lime wash banned?



on a side note. ORs apparent research blunders are definitely providing me with lessons in how NOT to produce scale models :roll:

doesn't mean I won't get one or two to bulk up my fleet purely 'cause it's LNER and RTR. As much as I enjoy kits, there's something to be said about buying a model with the knowledge that, so long as I don't have any qualms about errors, I can plonk it straight on the track without a couple days spent building and painting the damn thing.
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

Dave S
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by Dave S » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:24 am

Nova wrote: hate to divert the topic, but why was Lime wash banned?
.
It's nasty and burns.

I know this from years of using it.

60117 Bois Roussel

Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by 60117 Bois Roussel » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:59 pm

I can only shake my head with disbelief at the cavalier practices being employed by Oxford Fail.

Lime wash - (not whitewash as some people will have you believe - that's a paint) is a heavy duty killer of pathogens and was used to guard against foot & mouth disease (FMD). Its main drawback was that it rotted the hoof on animals, and was nasty to humans.

During the early 1920s there was a serious and prolonged outbreak of FMD and a low concentration of carbolic acid (a.k.a. phenol) began to be used. This was around 1923 and it was adopted pretty quickly. You can check this from photographs and Parliamentary debate from the time. Phenol was so much kinder to all concerned that lime wash was quickly abandoned. Four years later, in 1927, a new Transit of Animals Act was passed that rendered previous ones obsolete. It contained a clause stating that 5% phenol should be used. It was a classic case of proven best practice being enshrined in law and not, as some people believe, the point at which the change came about.

The notion of a 1927-design 9ft WB cattle truck carrying a 1937 10ft WB running number and livery and whitewash from previous eras is bonkers.

Pennine MC
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by Pennine MC » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:19 pm

60117 Bois Roussel wrote:I can only shake my head with disbelief at the cavalier practices being employed by Oxford Fail.
Much as I shake mine at the number of times just two people keep returning to the same off topic opinions that have already resulted in locked threads.

60117 Bois Roussel

Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by 60117 Bois Roussel » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:50 pm

It just so happens that the two people in question know what they're talking about and what they reveal is not just poor practice by a manufacturer but a tendency for some people to rubbish perfectly valid criticism. Elsewhere it is even being censored. Is that what you really want? A balance has to be struck between lauding the good and exposing the bad, and the model railway media (however defined) has long done a poor job of this. One outcome is that genuinely good products don't get the praise they deserve, and products bad enough to fail the Sale of Goods Act remain on sale enticing gullible beginners.

Trying to shoot the messenger is a poor do and you have to turn to other areas, such as the "What..." series of publications - and even Jeremy Clarkson - to see fearless critiquing that is not subject to sniping and censorship. Have you not noticed that RMWeb has a habit of quoting LNERE, and wondered why?

Pennine MC
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by Pennine MC » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:08 pm

60117 Bois Roussel wrote:It just so happens that the two people in question know what they're talking about and what they reveal is not just poor practice by a manufacturer but a tendency for some people to rubbish perfectly valid criticism. Elsewhere it is even being censored. Is that what you really want? A balance has to be struck between lauding the good and exposing the bad, and the model railway media (however defined) has long done a poor job of this. One outcome is that genuinely good products don't get the praise they deserve, and products bad enough to fail the Sale of Goods Act remain on sale enticing gullible beginners.

?
I like to think I know what I'm talking about, Steve, and if you knew anything about me you'd know that I'm a supporter of the principle of objective criticism. But I also like to think that having made my point, I know when to stop.

What you two do goes way beyond objectivity. You repeat yourselves to a quite extraordinary degree. You use sensationalised language - Sale of Goods Act is quite an amusing example. You're here with your home brewed cynicism every time a new running number is announced by OR. You're not saying anything new, it's just so mind numbingly *relentless*.

As for striking a balance, I'd have a bit more regard for that notion if you were even-handed in critiquing similar releases by other manufacturers. I have no axe to grind for Oxford either way, I just think this behaviour is getting a tad obsessive now. Anyway, I've said my piece, the rest is up to forum admin.

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richard
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by richard » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:50 pm

Messrs Bois Russell & adrianbs, please re-read what I wrote here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11367&p=117486#p117486

Okay I didn't mention Bois Russell by name but it is pretty clear from the context that you're included.

You've beaten this horse many times over. Stop. It is a dead horse. Shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. Any more beating of this topic and temporary bans will be given without further warning - you've had a lot of warnings already.

I really do not have time for this nonsense. I am overloaded with work, we have a baby here that is taking up my time (that Q6 on the above thread hasn't gone beyond the tender chassis), and I'm in a country that is teetering on the edge of an Orwellian nightmare. All much bigger problems than what is essentially a feud against a single manufacturer.

btw. Referring to Jeremy Clarkson does not help your cause.
Richard Marsden
LNER Encyclopedia

60117 Bois Roussel

Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by 60117 Bois Roussel » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:20 am

The same drum is not being beaten - we're talking about two new releases. And new errors. Didn't I offer half a page about the use of limewash from my own researches?

I would like to suggest that if you're not bothered, then don't get involved because taking part simply to shoot the messenger serves nobody really.

kimballthurlow
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by kimballthurlow » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:43 am

Hi,
Powdered lime (calcium carbonate) in its purest form is inert. Marble is also calcium carbonate, but in solid form.
I have never been burned by lime as used in Australia, which is as I described.
it usually comes from a quarry, and sold in bulk or in bags.
It can be used to help with deodorising barn yards, and stock wagons.

However, hydrated lime is formed by a hydration process, and can be caustic. It was used to mark football fields, but stopped because it could burn your skin, or worse inhale it. In the case of stock wagons ( barn yards etc), it can be used to get rid of odor, but certainly not while occupied by the animals. My guess is, that if hydrated lime was used, it was as a deodorant, then washed out, so leaving a white residue on timber floors and laterals. So it was a bit like whitewash.

It depends on the purpose of the lime. If you want it just to get rid of odors any will work. If you want a hard surface on the floor of the wagon or pen, then the quarry lime (calcium carbonate) is best since it will harden like concrete if you wet it.

I understand (from reading) that lime was used in cattle trucks, not only in the UK, but also in USA. I have seen videos of US trains in the 1950s, where lime has been caked on the first three or four laterals on the lower half of the stock wagon. And this was obviously after liberal application on the floor.

Kimball

jwealleans
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by jwealleans » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:56 am

Before this thread gets locked or deleted, can I just say how pleased I am to see Adrian posting again and I hope you're well on the way to recovery?

Dave
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by Dave » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:07 am

Richard.

Please don't lock this thread....it's to much fun, like being at school again.

Like wise I agree with Jonathans comments regarding Adrian

ps...any evidence of cattle wagons being used with a certain type of bird :wink:

Nova
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by Nova » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:12 am

Dave wrote:ps...any evidence of cattle wagons being used with a certain type of bird :wink:
surely they'd just be carried in "pidgin" full brakes :lol:

poor attempt at humour on my part, I'll show myself out
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

drmditch
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by drmditch » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:33 am

richard wrote:and I'm in a country that is teetering on the edge of an Orwellian nightmare.
Many commiserations, but we have our own problems in the UK as well.

My generation appears to have failed the world. I hope some of the younger people can sort it out now!

65447
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by 65447 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:33 am

60117 Bois Roussel wrote:One outcome is that genuinely good products don't get the praise they deserve, and products bad enough to fail the Sale of Goods Act remain on sale enticing gullible beginners.
Isn't the latter the reason why Amazon temporarily withdrew sale of 'LNER Passenger Trains and Formations', because of the lack of veracity of certain of the content when compared with the facts?

Dave S
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Re: Oxford Rail LNER Cattle Wagon . Rebuilding guide.

Post by Dave S » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:45 am

And I thought RMWeb was refered to as the "Dark side" :roll:

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