NEVAWAZZAS What would you have liked to see?

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all

There is often discussion about NEVAWAZZAS, and here is a list of locos that I would have enjoyed had they been produced:

Gresley 4cyl Pacific from 1915 illustrated in Nigel Gresley Locomotive Engineer
Gresley 3cyl 2-6-4T from 1925 illustrated in Nigel Gresley Locomotive Engineer
Gresley 3cyl 0-8-0T from 1919 illustrated in Nigel Gresley Locomotive Engineer
Gresley 3cyl 2-8-2T from 1931 illustrated in Nigel Gresley Locomotive Engineer, model produced by GK
Gresley articulated 2-6-4-4 from c1931 illustrated in Nigel Gresley Locomotive Engineer
Gresley 3cyl 4-6-0 from 1935 illustrated in Nigel Gresley Locomotive Engineer
Gresley et al 4-8-2 illustrated in Nigel Gresley Locomotive Engineer, various models produced
Robinson 3cyl 0-10-2T Worsboro Banker illustrated in George Dow's Great Central

digressing slightly;
Hughes L&Y 0-6-6-0 Mallet illustrated in Lancashire & Yorkshire locomotives by Barry Lane, model displayed on RMWeb a while ago.

Others will have different choices.

Earlswood nob

[Hatfield Shed]

Nothing more exotic than the Bugatti nose treatment that the Pepp A1s were originally supposed to receive. My working assumption is that this would have been final P2 style, rather than the extravagant 'aerofoil splasher' treatment given the A4 (and reputedly drawn by hand on the Crimpsall floor to create the pattern, from a photograph of the R100 airship); never seen an outline drawing of what the Pepp A1 treament might have looked like.

[James Harrison]

There's a line drawing of a pacific in David Jackson's biography of Robinson that would make a nice model. It looks rather like a stretched Jersey Lily or Immingham. I don't know whether it was put forward as a serious proposal or just as a design study/ project to keep the drawing office busy. (I also question whether loadings on the London Extension in GCR days would warrant an engine of that sort of size and power bracket, 'Lord Faringdons' notwithstanding.)

[Pebbles]

Very slightly confused, as I always understood that in 1924 Gresley had proposed 3 cylinder 2-6-0 goods engine based on the K3 but with 5ft 2in wheels and 18 in rather than 18.5 in dia cylinders. This was apparently rejected in favour of the J38/39. I have never come across a proposal for a two cylinder engine based on the K2. Does anyone have details.
As regards to Peppercorn's proposed A1 with a A4/streamline front, I raised this some time ago as it appeared on a Christmas card sent out by Peppercorn there are also pictures of models in "East Coast Pacifics at Work" by Peter Townend. I believe someone actually posted a drawing.

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all

I have seen the 1924 light 2-6-0 in books.

The only 2cyl 2-6-0 that I've found is a 1947 design in the green books. It would have 5'2 wheels, 4'6 diam boiler and a tender cab.

Earlswood nob

[Wainwright]

The 2-6-4T. Would it have had 5'8" wheels or larger?

I'm not sure from what I've read whether in fact 2 2-6-4T designs were proposed, one for the Southend services and one for the Widened Lines?

[manna]

G'day Gents

By the sound of the 5'8" 2-6-4T for the Southend line, a V1/3 with an extended bunker and tanks, would seem to fit the bill.

manna

[Pebbles]

Thank you earlswood nob you have in effect confirmed my understanding. The 1947 proposal had nothing to do with the J39 and the 1924 3 cylinder proposal was rather elaborate indeed a small wheeled K2 may well have won the day. But, here again where was the requirement for the J38/39? it may well have been that the operating side of the LNER were wedded to 0-6-0s and that's what they wanted.
On the issue of 2-6-4 passenger tank engine, the diagram I have seen was for a two cylinder engine and interestingly the first mention of a 6ft 2in driving wheel. This may not be the place to mention it but, I recall that the wheelbase including the GNR tender of the K3 was almost, if not the same, as a GNR Atlantic. As when the A1s were introduced larger turntables had to be installed it may very well have been that infrastructure considerations played a part in the K3 design. That said, the conjugated valve arrangement was always simpler with a leading pony truck as opposed to a bogie unless the drive was either on the leading axle (B16/2 and D49), or a divided drive used (B17).

[earlswood nob]

Oooops

The 2-6-4T mentioned in the lead post was in fact a 2 cylindered loco.

I have read FAS Brown's book many times and always assumed that the loco had 3 cylinders. There was of course a Stanier 2-6-4T with three cylinders for the Southend services.

I understand that the 1924 2-6-0 was deemed too expensive and replaced by the design for the J39.

Earlswood nob

[Danby Wiske]

...where was the requirement for the J38/39? it may well have been that the operating side of the LNER were wedded to 0-6-0s and that's what they wanted.

Might it have been something to do with turntable size? A 2-6-0 may well have been too long for some locations.

[Wainwright]

Can I suggest a Smith compound D49? A subtle one, I know.

[Richard i]

There's a line drawing of a pacific in David Jackson's biography of Robinson that would make a nice model. It looks rather like a stretched Jersey Lily or Immingham. I don't know whether it was put forward as a serious proposal or just as a design study/ project to keep the drawing office busy. (I also question whether loadings on the London Extension in GCR days would warrant an engine of that sort of size and power bracket, 'Lord Faringdons' notwithstanding.)

Have you a copy of that drawing, I don't think I have seen that one.
Richard