'Consists' v 'Rakes'

[Graeme Leary]

Could somebody please clarify the correct usage of the terms 'consist' and 'rake'. I have always understood a line of wagons (even though I think I've heard it mainly in connections with passenger trains) is a 'rake' of coaches/wagons. The term 'consist' I have (possibly incorrectly) associated with 2 or more locos operated together - ie connected and operating at the same speed. (I also speculate that the term 'consist' may in fact be an American expression and, if my theory is incorrect, the word 'consist' has been picked up as there seem to be many more American modellers here).
My reason for the query is the editor of our club's absolutely brilliant monthly magazine uses the term 'consist' to describe a line of wagons and/or coaches and as he has been in the hobby much longer than me I hesitate to discuss it with him (plus I'd like to be correct myself!)
Many thanks.
Graeme Leary
New Zealand

[JASd17]

Graeme,

I cannot answer your query directly, I am sure others may be able to help.

However, The later 1930s LNER carriage working books use the terms 'composition' and 'formation' when describing the make-up of the trains.

John

[Mickey]

I have worked on the railways since 1972 (apart from a short break between 1975-79) and the word 'consist' is used across the board on Britain's railways and features the TOPS information of 'every train' that runs on Network Rail (or Railtrack or British Rail before that) 24/7 365 days a year. If any train leaves a yard, siding or station without it's consist first being entered into the system for that train that train would be stopped anywhere on it's journey until the consist information was entered so any train running on the railway 'must have a consist entered' before starting it's journey. The consist shows exactly what is in the 'formation of a train' be it either a passenger or freight train for example the consist will show the loco(s) number(s) the individual carriage or freight vehicle numbers and any other relavant information such as the maximum speed of the train based on the slowest vehicle in the train formation plus for freight trains is there any 'dangerous goods' being carried in any of the vehicles and is there any 'out of guage' loads also being carried in the train as well?. Some freight trains are 'Route Restricted' and MUST adhere to a particular route during there entire journey from start to finish that will also be shown in the train consist as well. Theres probably more to it but thats the gist of it.

I believe the word 'consist' may well be an American term?.

When I first started on B.R. in 1972 as a youngster I remember some of the older railwaymen saying that TOPS was then a new thing bought by British Rail off the American's.

Mickey

A slight edit guy's I should have wrote 'out of guage' loads instead of originally writing 'out of guage' vehicles.

[D2100]

When I first started on B.R. in 1972 as a youngster I remember some of the older railwaymen saying that TOPS was then a new thing bought by British Rail off the American's.

Introduced in 1971, and yes, developed from a system used by the Southern Pacific RR.

To me, a 'consist' would be a list of every vehicle in a train - literally what it 'consists' of. A rake, I would normally think of as a block train of similar vehicles, but there's no great rationale behind that. I don't claim either to be the 'correct' usage, I'd suggest it doesn't matter too much as long as folk make themselves understood.

[2512silverfox]

This was most definitely an Americanism brought in with TOPS and is of course excruciatingly bad English as are many expressions originating in America!

I remember Don Rowlands (who like me at the time worked in the computer industry) writing an article after talking to his railway friends pronouncing that BOTTOMS would be a much better tried system (BOTTOMS = back on to the old manual system). I seem to remember him getting his knuckles rapped.

[65447]

So, if modelling pre-1971 speak proper English!

[1H was 2E]

Indeed, 'consist' was a US American term introduced with TOPS, which itself was a US computer programme rather half heartedly converted for B.R. use. Other terms we had to get used to included CAboose for guards' brake. The TOPS implementation team thought that using all these terms made them hip, I think.
An objection to that use of' 'consist' is that the word is a verb not a noun, but I suppose it compensates for the use in sport of nouns - podium, medal - as verbs. Hey, what's it matter - you know what I mean you may say - except that hearing "medal" used as a verb confuses me with the verb "meddle"
For a long time now they've been "Making America Grate". Not a new thing at all.

[Graeme Leary]

Many thanks all, and I too get a tad agitated when nouns become verbs and vice versa. However, the origin of 'consist' is most enlightening and might be of interest to the editor of my club's excellent rag, 'The Clinker'.
Graeme

[D2100]

. Other terms we had to get used to included CAboose for guards' brake. The TOPS implementation team thought that using all these terms made them hip, I think..

Worth mentioning that one list I've seen had the code RA- for brakevans, i.e. with railway operating vehicles where it belonged, rather than covered bulk carriers... some codes did have a useful mnemonic element though, like VSV and OSV for shock absorbing derivatives of the van and open, or VP- for Palvans.

[Atlantic 3279]

The TOPS implementation team thought that using all these terms made them hip, I think.
An objection to that use of' 'consist' is that the word is a verb not a noun, For a long time now they've been "Making America Grate". Not a new thing at all.

Quite. More wholly un-necessary and potentially confusing adulteration of the well-established and entirely adequate English language, mostly thanks to a nation that cannot even find two decent, normal people from a choice of over 300 million, when looking for its two leading presidential candidates....

[Mickey]

Personally I would still call a loco hauling a train of coaches or freight vehicles a 'rake' the word 'consist' in my opinion means something completely different it's telling certain railway staff that need to know what the train 'consists of' such as what coach or wagon vehicle numbers are in the train formation, whats the maximum speed of the train and whats being carried in various freight vehicles in the train etc etc...

Mickey

[65447]

The TOPS implementation team thought that using all these terms made them hip, I think.
An objection to that use of' 'consist' is that the word is a verb not a noun, For a long time now they've been "Making America Grate". Not a new thing at all.

Quite. More wholly un-necessary and potentially confusing adulteration of the well-established and entirely adequate English language, mostly thanks to a nation that cannot even find two decent, normal people from a choice of over 300 million, when looking for its two leading presidential candidates....

Agree - shall we 'protest' it