Haywood - Updated Locomotive roster

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Dave S
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - A vision of the LNER in the 50s and 60s

Post by Dave S » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:43 am

Nova wrote: all three of these are going to be tests in trying to fuse sections of diecast together. I wonder if I can reinforce the joins with thin brass rod, it'll also help to locate each section.
I don't like being a doom monger....... but Good luck with the die cast, you only have to look at the various problems Hornby have had with the chassis on the 31 to see what fun it could have in store for you.
Also, it doesn't drill accurately enough for doweling which is what I presume you mean with the thin brass rod.

I know I struggle with time but you've probably got 10 times more things to do than I've got tucked under the baseboards

Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:30 pm
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincs

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - A vision of the LNER in the 50s and 60s

Post by Nova » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:17 am

Dave S wrote:
Nova wrote: all three of these are going to be tests in trying to fuse sections of diecast together. I wonder if I can reinforce the joins with thin brass rod, it'll also help to locate each section.
I don't like being a doom monger....... but Good luck with the die cast, you only have to look at the various problems Hornby have had with the chassis on the 31 to see what fun it could have in store for you.
Also, it doesn't drill accurately enough for doweling which is what I presume you mean with the thin brass rod.

I know I struggle with time but you've probably got 10 times more things to do than I've got tucked under the baseboards
by "fuse" I meant any way of joining two pieces together, glue or otherwise
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:30 pm
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincs

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - A vision of the LNER in the 50s and 60s

Post by Nova » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:14 am

for a while now I've been thinking about having some way of showing that everything isn't all sunshine and rainbows in my view of what might have happened, even if what would have actually happened would have been much worse.

Then I stumbled across a video that I've posted elsewhere on the ill-fated Penn Central, and it gave me a moment of clarity. "Why not have the CM&YUR be in a similar state?"

my current idea is that, whilst vital for supplying mineral traffic, the "C 'n' M" has always played second fiddle to other areas, hence why its primary motive power is 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s from the turn of the century with second hand ex-war department engines filling in the ranks, and the damage wrought by WW2 has made matters worse, as a result by the 50s and 60s it's in a rather dilapidated state, despite carrying heavy mineral traffic. and by the late 70s with the mine and quarry becoming depleted it would be facing closure with a replacement bus service to see passengers to the main line.

so once I have the means to do so I shall be experimenting with a length of track and seeing how purposefully "bad" I can lay the track to still let trains run reliably, but create a noticeable "sway" in rolling stock as it trundles along the route. this will include packing the track up on alternating sides in order to force a swaying motion
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:30 pm
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincs

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Nova » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:29 pm

I've been contemplating the decision to someday cobble together a few LNER-outline heavy frieght 4-8-4s. My reasoning thus far is as follows.

The Great Central's famous "Windcutter" services are by now well known throughout this forum, and how the likes of O1s and BR 9Fs would often touch 60mph on the flat despite being unfitted.

so what if Harrison and the relevant individuals in the LNER's management decided to implement similar practice elsewhere. faster frieght trains would mean more stock moved and drawn to the railway and therefore more frieght revenue causing more fast trains to be needed (rinse and repeat). With the LNER planning to also implement "high capacity" 40t bogie frieght stock outwardly similar to the "frieght cars" in use in the USA frieght trains would naturally begin to be more stable at speeds approaching 60mph and beyond. Therefore the the need isn't for a class of locomotives to haul heavier trains, but to haul the same trains faster whilst having that little bit extra grunt.

If you're familiar with US railroading practice you'll know that 4-8-4s were used on passenger and fitted frieght service, often with locomotives featuring driving wheels of 6ft or bigger, and due to only 60% of total weight being available for adhesion (never mind the dead wieght of a tender). So whilst the tractive effort won't be improved much over the likes of a 2-8-0 besides weight gained through the size increase, the four wheel rear truck will allow for a doncaster pattern of round top firebox with a larger grate area than on the Pacifics which means more heat to boil water and the larger boiler supported by a 4 wheel leading truck means more water capacity in the boiler and more steam to maintain higher speeds. The passenger locomotive pedigree in the wheel configuration also means the locomotive would also run more smoothly than a 2-8-0 at higher speeds so long as the wheels are properly balanced.

the potential is for a heavy frieght locomotive with a larger boiler than a 9F that can also run comfortably up to and over 60 mph whilst still having as much if not more grunt than the likes of said 9F.
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:30 pm
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincs

Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Nova » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:45 am

Something I never fully addressed was how the post war wagon grouping liveries would look. I've settled upon having each county coal company painted in the colours of their namesakes' flags, to use the ones that will appear most commonly on my layout as examples:

Lincolnshire Coal Company: light Green with blue strapping and red letters

United Ridings of Yorkshire Coal: blue with white letters

Nottinghamshire Coal Company: dark green with red strapping and white letters

County Durham Coal Company: Yellow with blue letters, or vice versa depending on what looks best

Northumberland Coal Company: Red with Yellow letters.

I will in time be doing one wagon for each county in the country to create a display train
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

Mersey508138
GNR J52 0-6-0T
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:22 am

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Mersey508138 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:47 am

Hi Nova

There was some type of goo that could be bought from wilkos which consisted of the actual bonding part and a hardener which is suitable for bonding metal together.

I used it on 2 triang A3 chassis with everything removed and left it to cure fully for about 2 - 5 days. I did the same with 2 rear trucks for the same loco, left them to fully cure for the same amount of time as the chassis and by the time it had cured I had an 8 wheel chassis and 4 wheel rear bogie which when the 4 wheel front bogie was added gave me a 4 - 8 - 4.

Unfortunately I cannot remember what the stuff is called but once it has cured it can be filed smooth but the bond is strong and durable.

If you look on their website it should be possible to find it.

My apologies that I don't know what the product is called but hope this helps.

Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:30 pm
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincs

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Nova » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:05 pm

Mersey508138 wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:47 am
Hi Nova

There was some type of goo that could be bought from wilkos which consisted of the actual bonding part and a hardener which is suitable for bonding metal together.
at a guess I'd say Epoxy resin, as I think it uses a two part mixture.

also, do you by any chance have pictures of the 4-8-4?
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

Mersey508138
GNR J52 0-6-0T
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:22 am

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Mersey508138 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:10 pm

I don't have any pictures at the moment but I will try and get some of it as soon as I can.

Dave S
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Dave S » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:21 pm

Nova wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:05 pm
Mersey508138 wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:47 am
Hi Nova

There was some type of goo that could be bought from wilkos which consisted of the actual bonding part and a hardener which is suitable for bonding metal together.
at a guess I'd say Epoxy resin, as I think it uses a two part mixture.
Apart from Epoxy resin glue there is a 2 part adhesive for metal repairs which has something like metal filings as a binder.

exile
GNR J52 0-6-0T
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:58 pm
Location: France

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by exile » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:45 pm

Nova

While I like the ideas of your wagon liveries. I think you have to consider the austerity of the time which would push towards:

1. unpainted wood base colour
2. Use of iron oxide (rust = red) base colour - as per many PO companies before
3. Use of grey or dark grey/black base colour -as used as a second option by many PO companies

Just a thought

Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:30 pm
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincs

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Nova » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:13 pm

Dave S wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:21 pm
Apart from Epoxy resin glue there is a 2 part adhesive for metal repairs which has something like metal filings as a binder.
most interesting, if you can find any more details they would be much apreciated
exile wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:45 pm
Nova

While I like the ideas of your wagon liveries. I think you have to consider the austerity of the time which would push towards:

1. unpainted wood base colour
2. Use of iron oxide (rust = red) base colour - as per many PO companies before
3. Use of grey or dark grey/black base colour -as used as a second option by many PO companies

Just a thought
your input has been taken into account, I wasn't going to have all wagons owned by a given company repainted into a chosen livery, for one thing old markings would remain, much as they did into BR days, and in the early days rebranding would most likely only occur as wagons assigned to a company were brought in for repair.

if I were to give some level of estimate I'd say roughly a third of all private owner wagons would receive the new brandings at any given time, but as is the nature of averages the exact numbers would fluctuate between companies, obviously smaller counties would have more rebranded wagons than larger ones, due to wagons being divided based on county size with leeway based on the amount of coal to come out of a county.

as a thought, maybe in 1950, when the coal companies would be grouped, the majority of wagons were simply scraped down of old branding (or had the branding painted over in the previous owner's base livery), with a black info box in one corner (like with BR) featuring the company, number and return to address. it'll certainly give some interesting variety along with unpainted wagons.


numbers would receive a prefix digit based on the original owner. for example one former-company would have their wagons numbered in the 1XXX series, another in the 2XXX series and so on
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

Dave S
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Dave S » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:54 pm

Nova wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:13 pm
Dave S wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:21 pm
Apart from Epoxy resin glue there is a 2 part adhesive for metal repairs which has something like metal filings as a binder.
most interesting, if you can find any more details they would be much apreciated
A simple search brings up these in the top 3.

http://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints ... poxy-putty
http://www.belzona.co.uk/en/products/1000/1111.aspx
http://www.unibond.co.uk/en/diy-adhesiv ... metal.html

If you just wander into any Halfords there is a display with lots of different glues and fillers for the automotive world which is suitable for what we want.

Mersey508138
GNR J52 0-6-0T
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:22 am

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Mersey508138 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:39 pm

2017-04-10 14.25.40.jpg

Here is the 4-8-4 Chassis on 63291, It is the 1st of 4 locos I built using parts I already had.

The Pickups were made by me and wired through to the current hornby tender drive, however, a plan is being thought up to power the loco using the 8 driving wheels to actually drive it.

Not sure if this will actually show the picture as this is the 1st time I have posted a picture on here and I am using an S5 mobile phone too.

If it doesn't work I don't know what the next thing is to try.

Any ideas.

Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:30 pm
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincs

Re: Coalby & Marblethorpe - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Nova » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:15 am

Mersey508138 wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:39 pm

If it doesn't work I don't know what the next thing is to try.

Any ideas.
upload the image to a hosting site like Imgur (which is free) and then post it here
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

Nova
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:30 pm
Location: Scunthorpe, North Lincs

Re: Haywood (Formerly Coalby & Marblethorpe) - some what-if musings and an eventual layout

Post by Nova » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:11 pm

after some pondering and looking at the area the layout is going to be based upon, I've taken the decision to alter a few rather big details.

as you can see by the title, instead of "Coalby & Marblethorpe" the Layout will simply be called "Haywood" after the small village just to the west of the ECML in the general area my layout will be based upon.

likewise, the name of the constituent company is being changed from the "Coalby, Mablethorpe & Yorkshire Union Railway" to the "Haywood & Whitley Railway". I may even, at some point in the future, do a couple of locomotives in H&WR livery.

finally the layout plan is being altered, initially I was going to have the H&WR line (single line, operated using tablet catchers) exit the yard and rise above the mainline as it runs around the board before going into a second scenic area above the fiddle yard. I've now decided against this and the H&W will instead run single line parallel to the ECML as it runs into the cassette fiddle yard
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

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