LNER Teak Flying Scotsman coaches

[MikeTrice]

They were the Triplet set with interior styling by Charles Allom in Louis XIV style.

[Graeme Leary]

Thanks Mike - blimey; another challenge - to do the interiors as well!
Graeme

[Graeme Leary]

Having abandoned my original plan to cut back 4 or 5 old Hornby teak coaches (to replicate the Triplet restaurant set) I have just received the Comet kit for the same and very good it looks too. I might even be able to do a satisfactory job on the painting and teak finish.

However any pointers on how to portray the interior Allom finish would be much appreciated. Had thought of just painting a straight white but there maybe be some other things worth adding (even though won't be that obvious unless really peering in through the windows - more just a general effect until I perhaps get around to adding tables and chairs).

Graeme

[JASd17]

Graeme,

Steve Banks' web page has some useful information and photos on LNER restaurant cars.

http://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-an ... urant-cars

John

[Mersey508138]

Several years ago I tried to articulate some lner teak coaches to see if I could get some understanding of the fascination with articulated coaches.

Needless to say it was a far less than satisfactory result and the coach bodies were eventually scrapped though the chassis and bogies survived for eventual use as spares.

Since then I have never given it a thought to even try it again.

[JASd17]

Steve Banks' web page has some useful information and photos on LNER restaurant cars.

http://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-an ... urant-cars

The interior painted finish was noted as 'stone' coloured walls, with details in first class in soft blue, or green for the third class end.

I note the photo on Mr Banks' site of the interior of the First Class Diner in the Triplet set and that on page 91 of Gresley's Coaches, Harris, shows quite different seats. Are these different carriages, or are the high backed seats replacements?

John

[Graeme Leary]

THanks John for colour comment and the links - all (fairly) clear now. (Should be fun trying to do the interior seating as photographed - but might be able to adapt the 'inners' that come with the Hornby composite coaches that I'm using the roofs and underframes from - see below - to get something close to correct).

Mersey - my main reason for scrubbing the idea of adapting a few Hornby RTR teak coaches is that the window profiles on any of these models are so different to the Restaurant Triplet set windows. The brass Comet kit I bought is 'sides' only (with 'correct' window detail) so both the Hornby roofs and the underframes could be reused (with a little bit of shortening and rearranging) and the sides (and original Hornby roofs) reattached. Have even done a first coat of paint to get the teak base with the 'grainy' detail to be done over a few stages. (If anybody thinking of doing the teak finish on LNER coaches it is well worth referring back to 'Paul's workbench' posting of May 12, 2013. This fellow Kiwi has this job well described and makes it very easy to get the desired results).

Graeme

[Graeme Leary]

I note in Steve Banks excellent on-line article titled LNER Teak coaches and Livery he mentions a couple of times that after 1927 (or late 1920s) teak coaches were unlined, music to my ears as that will save me some anguish on how to finish my Comet Restaurant Triplet kit. Very glad to not have to attempt this task as the Flying Scotsman formation I am trying to replicate is from 1936.

However I have 6 Hornby (Railroad) composite coaches (with the composite 1sts/3rds as supplied changed to just 1 only 1st and 5 only 3rds) , these models being very definitely lined, but by this date would odd lined coaches have been included in the formation or, as Flying Scotsman was such a prestige express, would the 'powers that be' have ensured that all were uniform (which I presume would be the 'unlined' finish)? Whilst I relish not having to lined my Comet kit I'm equally apprehensive about 'removing' linings from these 6 Hornby RTR coaches.

(However, whilst admitting a certain degree of pedantry - as query above - my 1936 formation does have a few oddities in that my TKs are possibly not totally correct, just what removal of the composite 1st/3rd numbers on the Hornby composite coaches and replacement with 'just' 1sts or 3rds - as above - have allowed, so some latitude has to be given for the outlines. It is in these circumstances that I take the advice of many that 'it's my trainset - do what works for you', even if, to some, this is a hanging offence).

Also, I have not come across the acronym NPCS before; or exactly what defines a 'secondary' express as mentioned in the article - enlightenment much appreciated on both points.

Thanks in anticipation.

Graeme

[Atso]

Hi Graeme,

Regarding your comment regarding lining, I am of the understanding that it was only non-corridor (and maybe some pre grouping) stock that had lining omitted after 1928 - in the case of non-corridor stock the ends were also painted black from this time. Skimming through Steve Banks's web page again, there is a good colour view of a Gresley steel BG being pulled by a silver A4 (I have a copy of this photo somewhere but cannot remember if it is Silver Link or not!) c. 1937 which clearly shows at the coach is lined.

Lining is not that difficult but, in my opinion, does require the use of a ruling (bow) pen and is a little time consuming if the coach has a lot of beading. I believe that you 4mm modellers also have a transfer range available for LNER coach lining however, as an N gauge modeller, I'm not so lucky.

[JASd17]

NPCS is non passenger coaching stock.

There is not really a definition of a 'secondary' express, because it is not a railway term. There were ordinary passenger trains and express passenger trains.

I suspect Mr Banks is referring to express services within the LNER Areas, such as the NE Area Leeds-Hull or Leeds to Scarborough services.

I agree with Atso's comments concerning lining.

John

[Dave]

Non vestibule stock lined up to late 20's (off hand I can't remember the date when it changed) then unlined with black ends.
Vestibule stock always lined, and always with lined teak ends.
At least it is easier to line Gresley stock than NER stock.

[MikeTrice]

Vestibule stock always lined, and always with lined teak ends.

Only until the war then lining dropped.

[jwealleans]

.... until the end of hostilities when it was resumed, at least in some works?

[52D]

Mr Leary can i point you in this direction http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KIT-BUILT-9-C ... SwwvZZUM-e

[Graeme Leary]

Thanks again all and could you please clarify the term 'vestibule'. Mr Wikipedia tells us that it is the enclosed area where the coaches are joined by gangways, many (all??) also having a lavatory, and a look through Jenkinson and Campling's Historic Carriage Drawings indicates that with very few exceptions vestibules are on corridor or 'part' corridor stock. (If I've read the drawings correctly the exceptions to this are the 61'6" Buffet cars at the Saloon end (p56); the Open Third and Semi Open First (p61) & Open First and Open Brake Third (p62)).

If I'm correct and back to the lining question for my 1936 Flying Scotsman express, (and Atso's and Dave's comments) it would seem that my 5 x 1st's and 1 x 3rds (my revamped Hornby 1st/3rd composites) can quite safely be left with the lining as manufactured (as they're all corridor models); the Restaurant triplet would be unlined as would the bogie van (of which I also have a Comet kit to make). (I also have a later Hornby Buffet car model and this could be used to 'ring the changes' and call it the 1938 formation). Again, clarification, or confirmation very helpful.

And I presume an example of' 'non passenger coaching stock' (thanks John) is the bogie full brake van.

And finally (for the meantime anyway); 52D - how did you know the Coronation was another express I had been considering adding to my layout? The photos on ebay look great (but the livery on the observation car doesn't seem to match the other 8 coaches and I only have black & white photos, which don't show colour detail clearly, to compare them against. I would have thought they were all matching. I will follow this ebay closely over the next few days (and thanks for that link too).
Graeme