What's a good kit for getting into brass/white metal locomotive construction

[Nova]

it goes without saying that by the nature of my planned layout I'm going to need to build brass & white metal kits at some stage, so I was wondering what a good starting point would be.

Keep in mind that the most complicated kit I've built yet built was a Parkside LNER extra long CCT, but I already understand the basics of locomotive construction from finding a 5 and a half hour long video on youtube of Tony Wright going over the construction of three different kits and I know better than to go charging headlong into building a DJH Gresley U1.

I can tell you it has to be something that served on the LNER in areas already discussed, or the LMS at a stretch, but at the same time it has to be a kit that isn't too expensive or too complicated (no external valve gear, and preferably no outside cylinders, though I'll attempt them at a stretch) whilst still creating a decent finished result. To help narrow the suggestions down a 2-6-0 or 4-6-0 is the largest type I need at the moment in terms of a kit built locomotive, though I'll gladly build an 0-6-0 or 4-4-0. it can even be a class that's also available RTR.

[drmditch]

I would suggest an 0-6-0 to start with. It avoids problems with bogie and/or truck clearances. 4-4-0s and 0-4-4s are tricky to spring and balance. 0-4-0s have fewer wheels to collect current and get running smoothly.

Good old-fashioned 0-6-0s are a good learning vehicle for :-
- Getting wheels and axles on the track
- Setting up a motor and gearbox
- Getting reliable current collection
- finding out how you want to do things
-and there are plenty of LNER 0-6-0s that are never likely to be offered RTR.

As far as I can see, everybody has there own list of techniques that work for them. For example I even found myself disagreeing with the Great Mr Wright (sharp intakes of breath all round!) about whether coupling rods should be used in one piece or with separate rods between wheels. (I do the latter, and wouldn't want to do anything different, whereas Tony always works with one-piece rods and his products are superb!)

As to which kits to start with, everybody will probably have their own recommendations. I have not yet built a brass kit, but I have an Arthur Kimber Q5 to build this spring which I am looking forward to.

I enjoy building white metal kits. Top of my supplier list would be Dave Alexander. I am currently in the middle of a J21 from Dave (my existing J21 is a Nu-Cast kit - fitted with working internal valve gear - of which I'm a bit proud!). My best running engine is my Alexander Q6. I can also recommend a South Eastern Finecast J39, which might not be a bad one to start with. Perhaps however you might consider starting by re-building an old Bachmann J39 (probably obtainable quite cheaply) with a Comet chassis. That would give you a good introduction to getting things working.

Both my SEF and Bachmann/Comet J39's have big Mashima motors (now a problem) and Comet two-stage gearboxes.

These recommendations are purely from my own limited experience, but all my kit-built engines run adequately on my railway and look reasonable. These are my objectives!

One last point. Try to obtain a reasonable drawing, and don't assume that a kit, from any source, will 'fall together'. Sometimes a few file strokes may be needed - sometimes more surgery or re-inforcement. White-metal casting is a tricky process, and sometimes the results can vary. Take your time, measure up and think it through. After all, whether a kit, scratch-built, or re-worked RTR, it's your model. You have to make it work and be happy with it!

Excuse me rabbiting on. I'd better get back to my present project. Joy valve gear for the 'new' J21.

[60526]

A Comet J39 chassis sounds a good idea or a Comet N2 chassis under a Hornby RTR bodys, but to start with I would recommend getting a Poppy's chassis jig, http://www.poppyswoodtech.co.uk/ , go for the 4 axle kit.

[mick b]

Even easier as a first off.


Buy a Comet chassis kit for a rtr 0-6-0 body and learn how to get that running before fighting with bodies. You will also need a number of tools etc before starting.

[Nova]

informative responses all round, you've all given me much to think about.

I may very well go for a J39, as it's a Standard LNER design and could be seen practically everywhere, which puts it high on my list of locos to obtain.

I already have an N2 that I converted to an N2/3 a while back so I may do the chassis for that as a second project, I wonder if it's possible to get a backhead and cab interior to fill in the void that will undoubtedly be left by the absence of a motor

[drmditch]

I already have an N2 that I converted to an N2/3 a while back so I may do the chassis for that as a second project, I wonder if it's possible to get a backhead and cab interior to fill in the void that will undoubtedly be left by the absence of a motor

You could always make them!

(Plastic, wire, and good pictures to work from)

Sometimes old RTR backheads are quite detailed and worth improving!

Post_11c.JPG (25.95 KiB) Viewed 8034 times

This was a re-worked Hornby moulding from a J52.

[Nova]

You could always make them!

a valid point, a friend of mine will be obtaining a train simulator Add-on for the LNER N2, which, as with most add-ons, includes a fully detailed cab that is faithful to the prototype and is even interactive including operating reverser, regulator, brake(s), injectors, firebox door and shields (to block the glare from the driver), windows and vents. needless to say I have requested him to take some reference photos so I can use them to make a replica. and said interactiveness will be useful for posing certain parts

an example of just such a cab interior can be seen in the link below
http://www.lestorouteworks.com/images/l ... ivecab.jpg

[john coffin]

Ah the joys of youth, I remember when I first started many hundreds of years ago, flitting around to figure out what to build and make, but then us old b's had a number of skills drilled into us at school, or home from our dads. Boring skills like soldering, filing and fettling, which are it seems no longer taught so you have to learn them, and more importantly you have to buy some tools.

So, I would suggest that you start out considering making some 6 etched wagon and van kits, to get to understand how to solder particular metals and see how things go together in a logical and effective way. It is also a lot cheaper to waste a wagon kit, than a loco, but you are still learning the relevant skills. The other hint is to buy a loco kit that you are not particularly keen on in terms of prototype, so that if it goes wrong you do not
feel too disappointed when it goes wrong as it might well. Not everyone is skilled from the get go, it takes practice and failure and skills evolve and develop as you use them. But from our point of view we want you to succeed and develop as a help to the hobby which means not trying to build something that you never finish, because it is too complex.

Many of the others have given you good advice, and certainly starting with a chassis kit is a good way to go for loco building, but you still need the soldering and clean up skills, which can only be learnt by practice. I am sure you can find half started wagons to buy cheaply especially at some exhibitions, we all have too many bits that we will never finish, then you can see what to do, what not to do, and also get the skill level increased.

Mind you if I was really cheeky, I would suggest an LRM C12 4-4-2T which I designed especially for people who were new to modelling in 4mm,
but I wouldn't dare would I

Paul

[Nova]

Mind you if I was really cheeky, I would suggest an LRM C12 4-4-2T which I designed especially for people who were new to modelling in 4mm,
but I wouldn't dare would I

Paul

I think I'll give it a look.

mind you it's not the first Locomotive kit I'll be building, that honour goes to a small-time company called SCC, who makes plastic kits on shapeways, and they make rather nice models of an LBSCR E2 0-6-0T, and a FR J1 2-4-2T, I know they aren't LNER, but the parts can be bought in stages, and all I really have to do is prep the parts, paint them, then assemble it like an RTR model at the factory.

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksh ... eationsscc

[Dave S]

Mind you if I was really cheeky, I would suggest an LRM C12 4-4-2T which I designed especially for people who were new to modelling in 4mm,
but I wouldn't dare would I

Paul

I think I'll give it a look.

mind you it's not the first Locomotive kit I'll be building, that honour goes to a small-time company called SCC, who makes plastic kits on shapeways, and they make rather nice models of an LBSCR E2 0-6-0T, and a FR J1 2-4-2T, I know they aren't LNER, but the parts can be bought in stages, and all I really have to do is prep the parts, paint them, then assemble it like an RTR model at the factory.

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksh ... eationsscc

Having built 4 3D printed locomotives I'd suggest that wasn't the best thing to start with, Sparkshot has some good stuff but WSF is not the material I'd use, FUD is much better for finish asnd ease of use. For example WSF won't take superglue so you are limited to epoxy and there is a huge amount of cleaning/filling to do to get anywhere near a reasonable finish, this isn't the end of the world but you have to be very careful not to take off printed detail.
It is also much more difficult to set up a chassis in WSF due to its flexibility, it's not impossible but you need to have some experience of other materials so that you can substitute where needed.

I'd start with wagon kits, 4 or 6 wheels, easy to set up and a mix of brass and whitemetal, hone your skills before committing to a bigger purchase.

What have you built so far and how did you get on?

[Nova]

What have you built so far and how did you get on?

Dapol/Ex-Airfix 16t mineral wagon, a very enjoyable experience for my first ever kit and one I would personally recommend for anyone who's never built any sort of wagon kit before. it can also stand up against modern RTR offerings reasonably well so I may end up having a rake comprised of them.

PD LNER conflat, went together reasonably well, but I found the brake gear fiddly compared to the Dapol kit (as one would expect). I was able to make it run well, which was the most important bit for me. due to being damaged it's been lost to the mists of time

2x PD LNER extra long CCT, this was a case of having so much fun with the first attempt that I went and bought the second just for the hell of it, never mind that I completely misread the instructions on the first one and fitted the step boards to the ends thinking they were to make it easier for cars to run between wagons

I also built some slaters kits for the local club, a RCH 7 plank wagon and a MR cattle wagon, both came into the clubs possession because of the passing of a member so with the permission of more senior members I constructed them to add some variety to the club's fleet, also donated by the family of said member. they went together reasonably well and I'll try and get some picture of them at some point.

purely by chance I've just got back from buying a Dapol "Schools" class kit, so I'll be able to post photos as construction progresses

[Dave S]

As your experience has been with plastic I'd find some cheap wagon kits to start with, an open and a van, would be good if they're brass and whitemetal as you've the mix of materials to learn from. If it all goes pear shaped it doesn't matter just take them apart and start again.

Just built a couple of the PD Conflats as timefillers and a lesson in what to watch for with secondhand kits. I only paid between £1 and £2 each for them as they were in a job lot of brass kits, and although they've gone together well, the sprues to make the chain boxes shattered into a 1000 pieces, easy enough to scratch from strip but I wouldn't have been happy if I'd paid £5+ for them.

[Atlantic 3279]

As suggested a couple of times above, I'd give some of the necessary skills a bit of practice and testing on some whitemetal and etched brass wagon kits first, and make a religious point of soldering throughout rather than using glue. You won't be learning on all fronts simultaneously that way, and the cost of disastrous mistakes will be smaller than the cost of a fatal error with a loco kit.

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

As for technique, you won't go far wrong reading the works of Iain Rice. When I learned to build them, they were recommended to me.

A Hobby Holidays chassis jig is also a good investment. You can build a chassis without one, I have just to see if it worked and it did, but much easier with it. Although, in fairness, there are many such jigs out there and all seem to work well.

Your first? Yes an 0-6-0 is good but I would also suggest modifying RTR valve gear to get a feeling for it. My 1st was a Comet 8F, not where most people would start I know but I chose Comet because all the parts (chassis frame, cylinders and the like) are all available separately if you make a mess of it.

[Nova]

I've recently been given a battered old Lima J50, that whilst very "pre-loved" does work and I'm willing to have a go at repairing the bodyshell, half of the rear "clip" on the bodyshell is gone as is the running board under the tank on one side.

rather helpfully the previous owner has made an effort to remove the molded hand rails and drill pilot holes.

are there any chassis kits that will work for replacing the nasty Lima chassis with something that will actually allow for a cab interior?


I know it's nowhere near as good as the Hornby model, but considering I was given this one for free I ain't complaining.