Gladiator LNER/BR J6

This forum is for the discussion of railway modelling of the LNER and its constituent companies.

Moderators: 52D, Rlangham, richard, 2750, Atlantic 3279, Colombo, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun

john coffin
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by john coffin » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:13 pm

Whilst I thought you might say that Rob, I kind of wondered how you are going to ensure that the axle and everything are going to stay
square and properly quartered. I wonder if you might need to silver solder it?

Is there a jig, or do you have to guess?

Paul

User avatar
notascoobie
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 503
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: S Yorkshire

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by notascoobie » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:53 am

I'll be interested how you get on with this one Rob. I always thought that silver solder was the only way. However I was suprised when talking to Steve Barnfield that he used Locktite. I don't think he was joking.
Cheers Vernon

greenglade
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by greenglade » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:38 am

Just to pick up on the 'Loctite' debate, don't be fooled into thinking that modern retainers aren't strong enough, they most certainly are if the right type is chosen and the components are meticulously clean. For a relatively small model in 'O' gauge you aren't going to have any issues with slipped components. Choose the correct product, for this job something like 638 would do but do check the gap spec and chose a product that relates to the components concerned. Loctite comes in many forms, some will deal with fairly large gaps between components, others are made for slipped or even interference fits. Be warned that Loctite will cure within seconds, say 10 to 15 before you won't be able to move it if it's not quartered correctly without heating to 250c, full curing takes place after 24 hours.
Keep up the good work Rob, btw full size trains today use loctite for among other things, fitting wheels to axles..if it's good enough for the railways it's more than good enough for a model, just chose the product most suitable.

regards

Pete

john coffin
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by john coffin » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:44 pm

My experience with Loctite was in the early days when you had to be really clean both mechanically and chemically. I am sure that it has improved greatly and as you say it is used in many situations that would not be possible with other means of fixing.

I do wonder though whether it is mechanically safe to cut and shut 4mm gauge axles to provide properly working connecting rods?

Paul

greenglade
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by greenglade » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:22 pm

john coffin wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:44 pm


I do wonder though whether it is mechanically safe to cut and shut 4mm gauge axles to provide properly working connecting rods?

Paul
Hi Paul

It will be fine with 4mm, in fact I would say that the axle itself will be much truer than what it would after applying heat to silver solder...generally if silver soldering an axle the stubs would be left oversize to be trued down between centers after the components have been silver soldered together as heat will make it run out of true. You do need to use the correct product though, on this Gresley pacific axle I have used two types, one with a longer curing time and larger gap, the other for a press fit and no curing time at all. The crank pin is pressed, the web to axles needed longer curing and slightly larger gap to be able to get the axle pushed through both webs and lined up before it had chance to cure, final job being to cut the axle as per usual. All joints are key'd/broached but this is more for getting the correct quartering of 120 ,113,127 than strength, although for a loco of this power it's best to be 'belts and braces' it will be capable of pulling a few ton and so better safe than sorry. I know some model engineers who just rely on loctite. I'm not that brave, however there is no such concern on something as small(light) as 4mm, you aren't going to break the join if following manufacturers instructions to the full...

Image

regards

Pete

john coffin
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by john coffin » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:36 pm

That's wonderful and most illuminating Peter. As I said it is a long time since I used Loctite regularly for certain motor bike bits, so am always
keen to see the latest incarnation.
The axles look stunning and as for the rest of your work on the 5 inch loco is amazing. Really nice to know that there are still people around
prepared to have a go at something this big and Iconic.

Since in the short time anything I produce will only be for 2 cylinder locos,I can see a much clearer approach to what I had perceived as an
insurmountable problem to get the correct movement.

Paul

greenglade
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by greenglade » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:01 pm

Thanks' Paul

Nothing is insurmountable sir... just one step at a time as they say....there just happens to be an awful lot of steps in locomotive building no matter what the scale....I have a nice 7mm Martin Finney Gresley pacific awaiting it's turn once the 'big un' is done, mind you I also want to make a rake of Gresley teaks in 5" too.....something tells me there may not be enough time in me for that, but hey I'll give it a go...... :)

Pete

john coffin
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by john coffin » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:01 pm

Well at least in 5inch gauge you can use REAL WOOD!!!!!!!!!!!

greenglade
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by greenglade » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:11 pm

john coffin wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:01 pm
Well at least in 5inch gauge you can use REAL WOOD!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh I don't know John, perhaps some 0.6mm iron on veneer fixed to a brass base plate would do the trick...for the cab/tender floor that is.....:)

Pete

User avatar
Robpulham
LNER A3 4-6-2
Posts: 1312
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:54 pm
Location: The Rhubarb Triangle!

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:29 pm

john coffin wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:13 pm
Whilst I thought you might say that Rob, I kind of wondered how you are going to ensure that the axle and everything are going to stay
square and properly quartered. I wonder if you might need to silver solder it?

Is there a jig, or do you have to guess?

Paul
Hi Paul,

Laurie Griffin takes the hard work out of lining them up - the eccentrics have a hole through them and a piece of steel rod is provided to line them up. The cranks have a corresponding hole on the inner face to line them up. the only mildly complicated bit is cutting the steel rod to length.

User avatar
Robpulham
LNER A3 4-6-2
Posts: 1312
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:54 pm
Location: The Rhubarb Triangle!

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by Robpulham » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:31 pm

Pete,

That crank axle is gorgeous, my hat goes off to you.

greenglade
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: Gladiator LNER/BR J6

Post by greenglade » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:34 am

Robpulham wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:31 pm
Pete,

That crank axle is gorgeous, my hat goes off to you.
Thanks Rob...I tip my hat to you sir for your modelling skills and what must now be a fairly large collection of handbuilt LNER rolling stock which is still growing....top marks sir...:)

Pete

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], mirreles31 and 20 guests