LNER Teak colour paint

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Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
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Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by Graeme Leary »

While you lot North of the equator have been slumbering I have hit another metaphorical hurdle regarding my Restaurant Triplet (sides only) kit, this time to do with the ventilator knobs (well, I presume they are ventilators) on the car roofs as there seems to be variations in different publications (and apologies if I've used the incorrect terminology for this).

For my triplet kit I am using 'cannibalised' Hornby coach roofs (their R4332 I think) with 18 moulded roof 'knobs' and realise some of these will have to be removed to get the correct effect. I have had a good look at the Historic Carriages (Jenkinson and Campling); LNER Carriages (Mike Harris); some drawings sent to me by 'humourist'; plus an excellent historic photo of the set sent by JasD17. Whilst minor differences (acceptable to me) the kitchen car roof seems reasonably clear (3 'knobs', then 1 between the ventilator cowlings and then another 4), however the restaurant cars are not so obvious. The profile drawing in Jenkinson and Campling (p73) looks like 5 - possibly 6 - on the Restaurant 1st roof and 16 - maybe 17 - on the Restaurant 3rd. (Please don't tell me the great 'unwashed' travelling 3rd class needed more ventilation!)

Also on this profile drawing what I assume are the ventilator cowlings are further apart on the 3rd than on the 1st but this may have something to do with the seating plan inside.

Another clarification would be appreciated, I also have a more recent Hornby Full Brake coach (their R4530A) and the top of the underframe on this model (where it meets the coach sides) differs from all the others in that it is painted (or moulded) in a deep red/crimson colour, all the other (older) models being black. This model has a much better grained 'teak' look finish but is this 'red' correct?

Thanks again all,

Graeme
MikeTrice
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
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Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by MikeTrice »

Daft question, are you aware of this article and does it help? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... -triplets/
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by jwealleans »

I took some photos of the NYMR teaks yesterday which I'll post later. To answer your second query, though, solebars on teak carriages should be teak brown, not black. On Mike T's recommendation I use Humbrol 62 for this, which is certainly very close to the colour the LNERCA have used on the NYMR set.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by Graeme Leary »

Thanks Mike and Jonathon (always great to wake up to further expert advice from far away). Will read and digest the RMweb posting and look forward to getting your photos Jonathon.

And by the way, do the moulded 'knobs' on the Hornby RTR roofs (rooves??) represent ventilator outlets - as I've called them? Made this assumption but the kit has rectangular brass roof pieces described as ventilator 'cowlings' so maybe the moulded knobs represent an entirely different purpose.

So that's what 'solebars' are - the tops of the underframes? Had heard the term but didn't know what it was so learn something new every day!

Graeme
MikeTrice
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
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Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by MikeTrice »

The moulded "knobs" represent Torpedo Vents. The rectangular pieces (which should not be rectangular by the way) are the extractor fan cowls.
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by jwealleans »

Graeme, I have started a thread using my photographs here.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by Graeme Leary »

Very helpful series of photos Jonathon and also the RMweb forum post Mike forwarded.

The RMweb forum topic 'initiator' (??) on Comet kits says that he is working on teak coaches in 1958. Would there have been any/many differences in detail in the period I'm representing, specifically the summer set in 1928 as detailed in Banks and Carters 'LNER Formations 1923-67 (p31)'?

In particular I'm interested in roof details. As well as some very good shots in the thread started by jwealleans the post (and photo) in the RMweb topic mentions 'electrical jumpers' and 'alarm gear'. Would these have been fitted as early as 1930 or are they a later addition? (And the other mention was of 'Water Tank Fillers' or 'overflows' - but I presume these were part of the original design/s). And, would all have been 'common' on all teaks that made up the 1928 formation, ie Restaurant triplet, Brake 3rd, Bogie Brake and the various composites?

I'm exercising a little modeller's license in my recreation of the triplet set but as these are 'in your face' on the roofs would like to get these correct (and buy any necessary parts when in the UK next month).

Many thanks.

Graeme
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by Graeme Leary »

Greetings all, back home in New Zealand and after meeting so many of you at Scalefour North jumping out of my skin to complete my Comet triplet set (and later go over all my oldish Hornby RTR coaches).

However, one unexpected result - using an 'oldish' bow pen from a retired draughtsman friend here - I carefully ran fine yellow paint lines (Humbrol Gloss 69) along the raised ridges (which presumably represent the beading that covered the separate teak panels) and overnight when I hoped it would be drying, in quite a few places it ran down on either side to the teak painted panels. I had not thinned the paint at all and as it's now getting a bit cooler it should not be anything to do with 'warmth' in the air.

Any suggestions or comments gratefully anticipated.

Graeme
2512silverfox

Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by 2512silverfox »

An old friend told me about the Irish Garda who, when asked for directions, said 'If I was going to there, I would not have started from here'!

Similarly, in this case I would not have attempted to line with gloss paint, thinned or not. Try a mat Humbrol primrose thinned to the consistency of milk and it should dry almost as soon as applied.

Nick Campling
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MikeTrice
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
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Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by MikeTrice »

Might be worth going through http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... uling-pen/ especially posts by Larry Goddard (Coachmann) and Ian Rathbone. I recently used a virgin tin of Humbrol No 7 Gloss Buff and it worked beautifully without thinning or thickening. Mind you I did have to dress the ruling pen and found Larry's advice the most useful in that respect.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by Graeme Leary »

Thanks Nick and Mike - much appreciated but interesting to see 2 different suggestions, ie Nick's Matt Humbrol and Mike's Gloss Humbrol (and the gloss seeming to be the preference on the RMWeb link Mike sent).

Would it have had any bearing that I had gloss varnished my Comet kit to seal the transfers so the gloss lining paint I used went on to a fairly 'hard' surface?

I have a day to consider these options as my local model shop (owned by the guy who has been very helpful with airbrushing suggestions generally) is not open on Mondays (today here) but I will be standing outside his shop at 10am tomorrow morning.

Graeme

(Nick - I have another matter I'd like to ask you about. I came across one of your books at Scalefour but darned if I could find a copy while I was in the UK last month. If acceptable to you I'd be keen to let you know details separately and my address is graeme.leary@xtra.co.nz)
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Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I've lined using un-thinned Humbrol gloss on both dull satin and quite glossy surfaces and found that it appears to me to do a better job of staying where it is, as a nice thin line, than do some matt paints which sometimes seem to spread a little and can dry annoyingly quickly in nib of the pen. The thing with the gloss of course is that it's easy to spoil the job by handling the lines areas too soon.....

Whatever I use, it is still quite possible on occasions to find the time spent on successful application of lines is dwarfed by time spent swearing at the pen and the paint, trembling, sweating, wiping off lines with thinners on a tissue, repeatedly cleaning out the pen and questioning my decision to model railways. Fortunately, I'm still too stubborn to give up.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by Graeme Leary »

Thanks Atlantic3279 for your addition to the great debate. During the last couple of days getting over the lurgy (possibly picked up in some remote corner of the UK) I have been chuckling away at your last paragraph mentioning all the downside aspects of lining - maybe my trembling and sweating were the symptons of excessive concern over trying to achieve a successful lining outcome, but then again perhaps it was unintended inhalation of said thinners. Back to the challenge tomorrow!

Graeme
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by jwealleans »

I use a cocktail stick dipped in white spirit to tidy up the edges of lines and any blobs. You can be quite accurate with it as long as it's fairly sharp.
65447
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Re: LNER Teak colour paint

Post by 65447 »

jwealleans wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am I use a cocktail stick dipped in white spirit to tidy up the edges of lines and any blobs. You can be quite accurate with it as long as it's fairly sharp.
If you weren't mixing white spirit cocktails then maybe you wouldn't need to clean up the blobs you made :P
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