Catenary Mast spacing

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Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Catenary Mast spacing

Post by Graeme Leary » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:09 am

Hope you can help with advice on approx spacing of catenary masts on straight lengths (based on 00 gauge) - and acknowledging they would be placed much closer to each other on curves.

This is to ensure I buy enough catenary kits in the UK next month as, once my restaurant triplet kit and related teak coaches are completed, the next major project is to start (and hopefully complete) a Judith Edge LNER/BR EB1 electric loco kit (I already have 1 Dapol Catenary system pack
00-CAT 1 but with only 10 masts I know I will need quite a few more to cover a total 'rural' line length of approx 16-17 metres which includes 3 groups of 'gradual' curves. Any rough approximation of number of masts would be very helpful.

I'd also appreciate any comments on the 'pros and cons' of installing the actual wires to the masts. It seems to me they could create problems with access to the tracks for eg removing or rerailing locos and rolling stock, and initially it has not be my intention to fit wires despite the authenticity of having them, but always open to suggestions.

Graeme
New Zealand

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
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Re: Catenary Mast spacing

Post by drmditch » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:22 am

If you are looking at the original NER electrification for which the EF1 locomotives were designed and run until 1935, then the masts and catenary were not like any modern system. There are some useful pictures on this very website, if you look under 'locomotives' and then 'electric'.

For further study, there is 'Shildon-Newport in Retrospect' by K C Appleby, published by RCTS.

I do agree about the fascination of these 'chunky' and competent locomotives. I may just have had fleeting glimpse of the Ilford shunter on childhood trips up to London. I was hoping to have had a section on my new railway for a small length of catenary, but haven't yet worked out how to do so!

Good luck with yours!
Last edited by drmditch on Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rlangham
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Re: Catenary Mast spacing

Post by Rlangham » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:23 am

For the mast spacing on the Shildon to Newport branch, the below is from my book 'The North Eastern Railway in the First World War':
The work on the electrification of the
line was done with minimal disruption to the mineral traffic working
on the line – the overhead wires were mostly hung from a gantry which
stretched across the width of the entire track bed from two vertical posts
on each side of the railway line. The vertical posts were a permanent
fixture, and during construction were used to raise the horizontal gantry,
and then when raised into position the workmen often worked on
fitting the wires whilst stood on wooden planks with steam locomotives
passing directly beneath them. The overhead steel gantries were usually
placed every 110 yards, but placed more closely on sidings and curves,
and consisted of a double wire except where the maximum power
would be not be necessary, such as sidings or where the train would
be going downhill where gravity would assist with the load. Warning
signs were placed along the line, warning railway staff and the public
alike of the dangerous electric wires, and wood boards fitted on bridges
in case those on the bridge got too close or fell off. On
Author of 'The North Eastern Railway in the First World War' - now available in paperback!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/North-Eastern-R ... 781554552/

Happy to help with anything relating to the railways in the First World War, just ask

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
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Re: Catenary Mast spacing

Post by drmditch » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:56 pm

Dear Mr Langham. Sorry I forgot to add that reference to your excellent book!

It is a shame that there is so little, if anything, left of the NERs (and Vincent Raven's) visionary scheme.

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Rlangham
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Re: Catenary Mast spacing

Post by Rlangham » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:20 pm

No problem - the RCTS book is a much better guide to the line and locos, I just relatively briefly covered it as part of what was going on the NER during the war. Definitely a shame there’s practically nothing except cast iron signs, and I believe some equipment on one or two bridges, left of this amazing scheme. At least there’s the quayside electric and the Tyneside parcels van still around
Author of 'The North Eastern Railway in the First World War' - now available in paperback!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/North-Eastern-R ... 781554552/

Happy to help with anything relating to the railways in the First World War, just ask

Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Catenary Mast spacing

Post by Graeme Leary » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:00 pm

Thanks drmditch and riangham for comments. The old photos I've tracked down would imply that overhead power wires were carried on heavier wires strung between poles each side of even single line tracks (as on part of my layout where my EB1 loco would run) that could be replicated for modelling purposes by 5mm dowelling, suitable weathered. Might still baulk at fitting the 'power carrying wires' above the actual track/s (so not to impede access) but the 'cross' wires between the poles should be okay. Have I got it right?

However any suggestions re scale spacing (for 00 gauge) much appreciated.

Graeme

Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Catenary Mast spacing

Post by Graeme Leary » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:20 am

Thanks to nzpaul (who is putting together a Judith Edge EB1 kit for me) I have now returned to this thread I started over a year ago. Paul has plenty of his own work to concentrate on first so no hurry but I would like to make a move towards putting together an overhead wiring system that would be as close as possible to prototypical for the 1920/30s period. (This will be for 'decoration' only - not for carrying power).

Since starting this thread I have now had a look at quite a few photos and am interested to hear if any other modellers have had a go at this same project and whether there are any pointers/suggestions they may have. (And as pointed out by drmditch in the original thread the Dapol system is not correct for this period).

One of my guides is the photo in Geoff Goslin's 'Goods Traffic of the LNER' (p103) which shows a single line with a single post carrying a cross member, about 3 times longer on the side away from the track than the other (above the track) and with round discs/orbs/globes at each end with double wires coming down to the ground from them. Would these have been for 'balancing' or levelling the cross member or perhaps something for insulation? (I presume there was a need to ensure no power was carried down to the ground by the 2 vertical wires at each end of this cross member). Even though I may not fit them the photo also suggests (as done that on p102) that there were 2 wires between each post, presumably the lower one carrying the power to the pantograph, and very much closer together than is the case nowadays.

Any comments gratefully received.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

lar1976
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
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Re: Catenary Mast spacing

Post by lar1976 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:07 pm

Can I add that one of the old NER posts was used as a form of memorial/display in Newcastle central station upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Central_Station%2C_Newcastle_upon_Tyne%2C_7_October_2013_%281%29.JPG

Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Catenary Mast spacing

Post by Graeme Leary » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:30 pm

Thanks lar1976 but wikimedia advise this link cannot 'be found'. Complicated series of digits/letters etc but have tried twice with no luck.

Graeme

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