Shunting conundrum

[nutford]

I'm trying to work out a Traincontroller schedule, and have hit a problem with how to move a train - nothing to do with the TC program, just how to achieve the move.

In the diagram above, a train of loco, cattle vans and a brake has entered the station, heading west (if the top is north).
The train needs to cross the lines and go up the branch to the east - ie. where the black arrow is. But let's say there are quite a lot of vans not just 2, so it really doesn't want to go all the way along the branch with the loco at the tail of the train.

BUT - if the loco runs round the train, then it will no longer be attached to the cattle vans - which are loaded . And the brake will be next to the loco not at the tail of the train, not good....

I did think could the loco run round the train, take the brake off the cattle vans, run back round and then propel the train up the branch with at least the brake on the back. But I'm not sure what this achieves really, and would anyway mean leaving the cattle vans on the running line with no brake or loco attached, and not sure that's allowed either....

Equally, in theory the loco could take the two cattle vans off the front of the train (imagining there were other vans behind them), run round and pull the train up the branch, so the loco would still be attached to the cattle vans, which would now lead the train. But during the move the loco would be moving the cattle vans with no brake attached on the running lines... so I don't think so!

So - how do you get the train up the branch? At the moment I can't see anything for it but to push the train all the way up the branch, but I don't feel that's what would have happened - or would it? (This is btw a real situation and track plan, the station being Melmerby in Yorkshire and the branch going some 16 miles up to Masham).

[jwealleans]

It is a myth that loaded cattle vans had to be next to the loco. They had to be placed such that they had the smoothest ride and the least shunting. Next to the loco would usually be it, but not necessarily.

In this case would you not place the cattle first, then the rest of the train, then run round? Are there any special instructions about propelling? Or would you always work in from the other direction?

[nutford]

Thanks JW - All very good questions!

Yes, I had envisaged the train comes in with the cattle first, then the rest of the train.

And from the reading I've done, I agree with you loaded cattle wagons weren't ALWAYS next to the loco, for the reasons you say, though some people argue they SHOULD have been, according to the rules anyway. And hard to tell from photos, as a van not next to the loco in a pic could have been an empty...

But if we assume that they don't have to be, and run round and then pull the train, then the brake is next to the loco at the front of the train, and the cattle at the very back. ie - the opposite of what you want. To make matters worse, the pics I have all seem to show the locos pulling the train on the branch, whichever way they are going. (Not easy to tell, but guessing from the engine smoke...).

Now that could just be coincidence, but I think you have hit the nail on the head and goods trains always worked in from the other direction. I know parcels and passenger rains didn't, but they had brakes at both ends so wasn't an issue, and lots of marshalling space at Masham station - Masham had a LOT of cattle trains, or at least trains including cattle - Masham had more sheep then people!

[ColHut]

Are the Cattle vans fitted?

regards