G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - B3-2 & B7 to follow

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LNER4479
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - B3-2 & B7 to follow

Post by LNER4479 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:39 pm

Welcome to what we hope will be an exciting series of new 4mm scale kits for the large-boilered GCR/LNER loco types.

This all started as a commission to create a 4mm B3 as 'Valour' in LNER 1930s condition in time for the 100th anniversary of the armistice this year (obviously a strong reference to the memorial role of the original loco). However, it wasn't long before others in the Grantham circle took a more than just passing interest and, to cut a long story a bit short, it has led to this joint venture - I'm looking after the etches for the chassis & footplate / cab and Graeme is producing a resin boiler to go with it.

First up will be the B3 - at the present time, the etch design work has been undertaken (by Nick Easton), a test etch built and the feedback used to tweak the design. A further series of what I would describe as pre-production etches have now been run off the revised design and these are now with a selection of kit builders who will no doubt provide further feedback over the next few months. The attached picture is of the completed test build, with an old K's B2 boiler and tender positioned to give an impression of the completed loco.

Meanwhile, Graeme is working on the master for the boiler and he has posted pictures of progress so far elsewhere on the forum. The idea is that we will have this work sufficiently advanced to have a sample loco on Graeme's demo stand at this year's Warley show which we are targeting as the official 'launch' of the project.

But this is not all! As I'm sure many of you probably know better than me, not only was the boiler common across four types (B2, B3, B7 & B8) but the locos shared common wheel spacings, etc. To that end, I have a firm commitment from Nick that he will undertake some work over the winter to produce an equivalent etch design for ... the B7. I am advised that there was some previous interest in a project to produce a kit for such a type which ultimately came to nothing, so hopefully our version will be of some interest. All being well, this should be available mid-2019.

Finally, for now, a few details for clarification:
- No tender is provided but there are several options available there, including the Bachmann standard Robinson tender. Mike Edge can also provide an etch and this is what I will be using for the 'Valour' I am currently building.
- EM/P4 spacers are provided and, as it happens, at least one each of the pre-production etches will be made up in those gauges, so we should have some feedback on those options in time.
- Both cab types are provided but no parts for the subsequent Caprotti rebuilds (that's possibly a separate etch in time)
- Included on the etch are parts to make up a simplified version of working inside valve gear on the leading axle that can be used to impart a rocking motion to the visible outside valve levers. I made this up on the test etch and it works fine.
- In terms of the metal parts, only the etches are provided. The connecting rod, piston and slidebar arrangement is designed around use of the Comet two slidebar casting which is not provided. The builder can either purchase this component separately or make their own version as an alternative.
- As well as the boiler, Graeme is looking into providing a small number of additional resin parts such as sandboxes and front inside valve chest 'piano lid' cover.
- As usual, wheels, motor, gearbox are for the builder to provide according to preference.
- I have produced a full set of illustrated instructions for the etches as I went along with the test build and these will be supplied with the kit.

We are looking to pitch it at a price of approx. £100 for the combined kit but are happy to provide the etch separately if required. Graeme will no doubt sell the boiler separately if requested.

Having successfully built the test etch, I am confident that what you will get is enough parts to enable the builder to put together a robust, accurate yet practical working model of the type for layout use. With additional detailing, this could equally be made up as a glass case model. We look forward to helping those of you interested to create your own models of this distinctive LNER locomotive type.
Attachments
33b_finished_LR1.jpg
Last edited by LNER4479 on Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
'Robert' (the Devil)
(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076. Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Spalding (Nov 2019), Southampton (Jan 2020), Leeds (Oct 2020)

nzpaul
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by nzpaul » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:29 am

Ooooh and aaaah.
Where do we sign up?

Paul

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iainkirk
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by iainkirk » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:41 am

Salivating madly in Padgate..... 8)
Perfection is impossible, however I may choose to serve perfection - Robert Fripp

LNER4479
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by LNER4479 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:38 am

nzpaul wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:29 am
Ooooh and aaaah.
Where do we sign up?

Paul
Hi,

Just message me for now and I'll keep a record of expressions of interest. We can then keep you updated and advise when there's to be a production run (which we hope will be post-Warley, over the winter time).
'Robert' (the Devil)
(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076. Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Spalding (Nov 2019), Southampton (Jan 2020), Leeds (Oct 2020)

exile
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by exile » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:00 am

That sounds very tasty. Just to be clear, with the variants offered, does that allow an original GCR loco to be built?

LNER4479
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by LNER4479 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:32 am

exile wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:00 am
That sounds very tasty. Just to be clear, with the variants offered, does that allow an original GCR loco to be built?
Graeme is more knowledgeable on the type than me but I believe that the only major difference is in the tenders (which we're not offering anyway). They originally ran with the self-trimming type with Iracier axleboxes. Until it was pointed out to me I wouldn't have known the difference so I guess it all depends on how fastidious you want to be. But so far as the front half (ie the 'engine' part of engine + tender) is concerned, I'm not aware of any significant difference between GCR appearance and LNER appearance (other than livery!). And I'm aware that at least two of the current pre-production builds will be made up as GCR locos. Some of the reference pictures we used were of the locos in GCR days and Nick Easton drew up design largely using a copy of the original Gorton Works drawing.
'Robert' (the Devil)
(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076. Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Spalding (Nov 2019), Southampton (Jan 2020), Leeds (Oct 2020)

Pebbles
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by Pebbles » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:28 pm

The question of tender type - that is whether self trimming or not - is dealt with on page 20 of RCTS Part 2B. Suffice to say that despite originally being equipped with non self trimming tenders at one time or the other, and depending on the period, all received and in some cases subsequently lost self trimming tenders.

Woodcock29
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by Woodcock29 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:44 pm

Hi Graham

Its nice to see this project out in the public domain now. Congratulation with how far you've got. I'm sure if the etches are being arranged by Nick Easton they will be good - he did the Howlden Louth Quad I have - which I have yet to build (but they look very good). Likewise the boiler from Graeme K.

For those reading this thread I'll post a photo of my Valour, built from a Ks B2 about 26 years.

I have a set of etches to help me build a B8 using a boiler from a Ks/NuCast B2 which I have spare. These etches are fairly basic as I drew up the original drawings for them but include loco chassis, footplate, splashers, cab and front frame extensions. They were etched for me by a fellow member of the British Railway Modellers of Australia (BRMA) here in Adelaide a few years ago. Not quite sure when I'll get around to building this as I have a full program for the next couple of years to build the locos and other rollingstock for an exhibition layout based on Spilsby being built by another member of BRMA.

I also have a set of etches from Mike Edge for a B9, as well as an ancient McGowan B4 kit for which I'm going to use a modified Bachmann O4 boiler which I have spare. These will eventually join Valour, B2 City of Lincoln and my B5.

I'm contemplating one of your B3 kits as I fancy Lord Faringdon.

I will however definitely order one of the subsequent B7s - I already have a Bachmann self-trimming tender set aside. Please put me on the list for that.

Regards

Andrew Emmett
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Valour ps small.jpg

LNER4479
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by LNER4479 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:03 pm

Woodcock29 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:44 pm
I'm contemplating one of your B3 kits as I fancy Lord Faringdon.

I will however definitely order one of the subsequent B7s - I already have a Bachmann self-trimming tender set aside. Please put me on the list for that.

Regards

Andrew Emmett
Thanks Andrew,

Consider yourself 'on the list'.

You look to have made a lovely job of your B2 --> B3 rebuild.
'Robert' (the Devil)
(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076. Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Spalding (Nov 2019), Southampton (Jan 2020), Leeds (Oct 2020)

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iainkirk
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by iainkirk » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:07 pm

This project is an excellent development, that is having calmed down mind.
I would be very interested in a B7, the B3 is tempting also but the piggy bank might object... :lol:
Perfection is impossible, however I may choose to serve perfection - Robert Fripp

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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:28 pm

Taster bulletin. More images and details tomorrow, with luck....
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Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.

Atso
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by Atso » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:31 pm

WOW! Why am I modelling in N Gauge again?!?!?! :o :o :o 8) 8)
Steve

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iainkirk
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by iainkirk » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:33 pm

Now I really am wibbling furiously...
Perfection is impossible, however I may choose to serve perfection - Robert Fripp

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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:27 pm

I think you can get tablets for that, but not on the NHS.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - First up: B3!

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:10 pm

Time for some further comment on what's developing:

Having made the necessary alterations to the originally slightly off-centre base of the smokebox it was time to think about the face. Reference to copies of works drawings in volume 2 of E.M. Johnson's excellent GC locos book showed that smokebox doors for the large-boilered 4-6-0s were the same as those for the Directors, notwithstanding the 3" smaller boiler diameters of the latter. It turned out that I already had a door for a Director, of correct diameter, with nice hinge detail (to save me from modelling that from scratch all over again) but the visible width of seating ring was almost nil. That's why the door in the following picture, merely Blu-tacked in place at present, has a new disc of black plastic creating a seating ring, which is now a shade too wide if anything - but users will be able to trim that down if desired with just few careful, well distributed strokes of a fine file. That's more practical than trying to widen a ring that's too narrow. The master door will otherwise remain plain, bar pop-marks for the centre fastening and the handrail pillars. A separate wheel-and handle or twni handle arrangement properly made will look far better than a moulded feature. I prefer to make wheel and handle from a 0.5mm wire spindle, a shoulderless handrail knob cut to length as the handle, and a Brassmasters nickel silver handwheel. Others may have their own ideas. The tiny bubble defect in the lowest part of the door hinge pin has already been detected and filled....

The door would have been far too small for the smokebox front as previously seen, the smokebox walls being only 2mm or less in thickness and the internal diameter 22mm, so four sleeves of 0.5mm plasticard have been added to bring the internal diameter down to less than 18mm. In the picture, these had only had their first round of filing and sanding back, leaving the front a little rough. Two more rounds of smoothing and primer application having given a far better finish. The 4+mm thick smokebox base is a vital feature of the model boiler, since the first "proper" one to be completed will be destined for professional painting and lining by a man who requires boilers to be removable. Hence a screw through the smokebox base and couple through the cab front into the shoulders of the firebox must be accommodated in the design. A separable boiler may also be useful for those builders who want to be able to slide / jiggle a motor-gearbox combination into the forward part of the boiler without having to cut out visible parts of the boiler bottom.

Very conveniently, that 1' 3" GC pattern chimney, and the dome, come from moulds that I had already made for other purposes.
STA71063s.jpg
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.

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