Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

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billbedford
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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by billbedford » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:32 am

Modern white paints are usually titanium white, which gives a bluish tinge when mixed with black. To counteract this mixing black with a cream or beige will give a better looking grey.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
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Graeme Leary
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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Graeme Leary » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:40 pm

Thanks Bill, will give your suggestion a go - hope will get this topic finished.
Graeme

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Graeme Leary » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:00 am

One last question (hopefully) re this event.

Does anyone know what was the loco pulling the Flying Scotsman on this special occasion? Even though, due to my layout restrictions I will not be able to replicate the full number of carriages, it would be good to show my 'truncated' express behind the correct loco (and co-incidentally I just happen to have 2 'spare' A1s, one with a GNR tender, the other with a corridor) and some renaming/renumbering should let me get this point right.

(Maybe this is also in the 1932 roster you sent earlier Seagull).

Graeme Leary

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Seagull » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:15 am

Hello Graham,

The roster is only the planned carriage formation. The great majority of the time that is what would be in the train, but there would be substitutions for failures, maintenance etc., and as in the film additional carriages when the passenger figures went up.

I don't have the locomotive number. Perhaps there are more photos of the departure from Kings Cross.
I did look carefully at the film on the internet but it is very grainy, maybe if someone is able to view a better version the loco number maybe readable.

You could try contacting Tommy Knox and see if he has any information for that day.
Sorry I don't have his contact details but maybe someone else can oblige.

Alan
Playing trains, but trying to get serious

JASd17
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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by JASd17 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:29 pm

I have reason to believe the loco on 20th May 1932 was probably A3 No. 2744 'Grand Parade', a KX based loco with a GN pattern tender.

John

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Graeme Leary » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:11 pm

Thanks again John. Grand Parade it will be!
Graeme

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Graeme Leary » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:44 am

Question for Bill Bedford (and any other's input would be great).

Bill, I tried the mix as you suggested but still came out very dark - obviously could put in less black.more cream/beige to get this right (and also airbrush rather than hand paint as I did which left some not very realistic looking brush marks). However, with your Mousa Models hat on wonder if you have any thoughts on a couple of Tamiya aerosol colour combinations I tried which seem to give a depth of grey, plus the shading (as in greenglade's comments for the 3rd and following coaches) and as in the Pathe newsreel.

After a grey primer coat, I sprayed the whole roof with Tamiya AS-16 Light Grey (USAF) which gave what I could imagine the original white lead would have looked like after a few workings (hints of soot/cinders but still 'white') and then 3 or 4 ' random' (and light) passes with Tamiya AS-27 Gunship Gray 2 (yes, American spelling). I only 'overlapped' the layers on the roof top which gave more depth and certainly enough to give the large white FLYING SCOTSMAN as painted on the BG roof more clarity. Have you done any work with aerosols along these lines?

(I could solve this by scrubbing the idea of depicting the FS as in the newsreel - and do the more conventional obvious 'white' white, but this 1932 running is quite unique).

Graeme
New Zealand

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by greenglade » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:53 am

Hi Graeme

Regarding the white letters 'Flying Scotsman', if I was doing this I would probably get some Letraset with the correct size/font. Spray the roof white, use fine tape to mark out where the letters need to go and carefully place the letters on the roof between these lines, don't rub fully home. I would then spray the weathering grey/soot coating and once dry carefully remove the letters. If you can find vynl letters of the correct size these would be easier to remove.

Pete

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Graeme Leary » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:07 pm

Hi Greenglade,

Many thanks - great suggestion and have now got the stickers (shape/font about 95% acceptable) and just reprimed the roof before respraying with white.

Graeme

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by greenglade » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:19 pm

glad to be of help sir...I did try to find some Gills San Font stickers but couldn't find anything smaller than 14mm...they might be out there somewhere though...

Pete

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Graeme Leary » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:53 am

Thanks again Pete,

The ones I got (from a 'craft' shop) are just under 14mm high (vertical side of the capital 'L') but I will have to trim a couple back eg a horizontal 'doofah' from the upstroke of the G as doesn't show in the actual photo I started all this malarkey off from. Plus they seem to be in proportion for 4mm to the photo and best of all, the general look of all the capital letters are in a 'balance' , ie quite simple block capitals and not at all 'fancy', that I think will be okay.

But another pedantic' query - which side of the BG would the 'base' of the letters have been? The model I'm adapting is a Hornby R4531 (BR - ex LNER - which I'm repainting in teak) and has 3 'double doors' plus a single door on each side but the single door is more centrally placed on one side than the other which also has what could be an opening window next to it. (My instinct is that this 'other' side would be the 'base' of the letters and - very roughly - the T and S of SCOTSMAN would be above this window and door. Campling's Historic Carriage Drawings Vol 1 p20/21 would suggest this but don't want to have to redo it all at some later stage!)

Haven't mastered posting shots on the forum but if you're interested (and okay with it) send me your email address and I'll keep you up to speed as it progresses.

Graeme

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Graeme Leary » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:41 am

I'm getting dangerously close to finishing the BG with the painted FLYING SCOTSMAN roof but would like to clarify the position of the LNER letters and coach numbers on the sides. (I'm numbering the coach 164 being one of the series 163-176 from the 1932 roster supplied by Seagull for the BG with the FS roof lettering).

I had been advised in the context of the Restaurant triplet set that the LNER and the coach numbers were 'mirrored' ie the LNER were at the same end on the coach as were the numbers. My confusion is that the Hornby BG I've adapted for this project (R4530) has the LNER to the left and the number to the right on both sides of the coach - in other words, not 'mirrored'.

As well as clarifying this query I'd also be grateful to have confirmed that I've interpreted correctly Seagull's roster details and the number 164 is a possible/probably accurate choice (or any other suggested numbers from this roster which are more likely).

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by jwealleans » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:41 am

To the best of my knowledge, Graeme, after a very early period of experimentation, LNER goes to the left as you look at each side and the running number to the right. Each in the centre of the furthest panel large enough to accommodate them. For vehicles with very long panels, they seem to have been centred under the furthest window.

As always, photographs are key and never assume everyone did as they were supposed to or went by the book.

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Seagull » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:34 pm

Graeme Leary wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:41 am
As well as clarifying this query I'd also be grateful to have confirmed that I've interpreted correctly Seagull's roster details and the number 164 is a possible/probably accurate choice (or any other suggested numbers from this roster which are more likely).
Hello Graeme

It cannot be in the number range 163-176 as they were the steel body BGs and they had very obvious ribs running across the roof between the rain strips. These are very clearly missing in the photograph in the book, therefore it must have a wooden body BG, though I have never found any reference that says which BG was used.

But as I mentioned in the PS in my 3rd post the earlier 1924 wooden body BGs had been cascaded from the FS and at least one or two were probably kept as standbys to cover failures or a strengtheners. It's just as likely they used one of these as any other and they were numbered as 140-146.

Alan
Playing trains, but trying to get serious

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Re: Flying Scotsman 'One-off' Roof detail

Post by Graeme Leary » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:11 pm

Many thanks Jonathon and Alan - great to know that when sound asleep down here in the south Pacific better brains north of the Equator are wide awake and working on my queries. Perfect answers (and even more so as the inaccurate 164 can easily be changed before all set/varnished into permanent place).

Graeme

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