Quicksilver's Workbench

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Quicksilver95
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:24 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Quicksilver's Workbench

Post by Quicksilver95 »

Well, I feel a little overawed in the presence of such experts starting my own thread, but having been reading Mike Harris LNER Carriages book I decided it was about time I thought about building my own. I remember seeing Mr King mention somewhere around the forums that the Ian Kirk full brake coach was one of the easiest to build, so I duly sourced one a well known auctioneering site and it arrived on Saturday.

I want to make sure I start as I mean to go on, so being surrounded by such a crowd of experts, a couple of questions spring to mind:

What are the general strengths and limitations of the Kirk kits? Anything particularly to be aware of when starting to construct this one?

Any particular products to suit these kits? What glues and wheels do people tend to use? Epoxy or superglue? Which brand?

I'm sure I'll have others as the learning curve progresses! I'll try and put any build progress up here! Thanks in advance

Joshua
Last edited by Quicksilver95 on Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dave S
GNSR D40 4-4-0
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by Dave S »

Quicksilver95 wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:38 am Any particular products to suit these kits? What glues do people tend to use? Epoxy or superglue? Which brand?
I use solvent (Mek Park/Plastic weld/de limonine) on Kirks.

I tend to get wheels from Colin at Alan Gibson.
Hatfield Shed
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by Hatfield Shed »

'Obtain a scale drawing (Isinglass) and some photographs of the vehicles.

Assess the parts for straightness and dimensional matches before assembly. If there are any errors, refer to drawing as guidance in dimensional corrections, photographs for appearance. A steel rule and small metal square are invaluable for checking straightness of parts and squareness of assembly.

The usual grade of polystyrene from which these kits are moulded works well with Slater's Mekpak. Not too aggressive, and makes a 'strong enough' bond. Place the components to be cemented in their assembled position, and apply the cement sparingly using a small paint brush from what will be the interior (inside/unseen) part of the joint. The cement will run freely between the surfaces to be bonded, by capillary attraction. A couple of dabs will hold the pieces while alignment is assessed, but still allow a little adjustment. When all square apply more cement and leave to set. Invert the roof, and put the body down on it to assemble to avoid any cement runs down the bodysides. (Far easier to correct these on the relatively plain roof.)

I would typically paint the major parts before assembly, but keep the bonding surfaces free of paint, touch up the body paintwork before addding the roof, paint the roof in situ.

A really simple 'dodge' for the running gear is to purchase the complete 'Thompson' bogies (if available) from Bachmann. This requires some adjustment of the bogie mountings on the underside to reduce their height, and plastic sheet cementing to the bogie underside in which a small screw hole may be made. Some like to epoxy a bolt in the vehicle, and then add a washer and nut under the bogie; builder's choice.
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by jwealleans »

I'm a bit more ruthless than some with the Kirk kits - I usually chuck everything from the floor downwards away.

Image

You can use the Kirk floor for convenience as I have here, but everything else is replaced. MJT bogies will last much longer and give better riding, being heavier than the plastic ones. Those above are ABS, but they're no longer available. MJT or Comet underfittings replace everything else. MJT are more accurate, but Comet (through Wizard Models) are easier and quicker to get. You won't need to put weight into the body that way.

I also make the body removable from the floor so you can get in to replace that glazing which will fall in just after you've sealed everything up. It's not so important for a BG, but it's a useful practice.

Image

Image
Quicksilver95
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:24 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by Quicksilver95 »

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful replies! An order from Eileen's Emporium has supplied me with a lot of the equipment suggested. I think to start with I'll stick to the kirk underframe and bogies, though perhaps when I'm a little more confident I'll have a go at some more drastic changes.

Here is the kit as supplied:
DSC_0752 copy.JPG
And here are the component parts:
DSC_0753 copy.JPG
I intend to work through following the Ian Kirk instructions - any pitfalls to avoid here? I like the option of making the floor removable, so I'll need to have some deviations from the instructions at least.

Also, I think this kit represents the diagram 113 full brake, though happy to be corrected on that score!

Cheers,

Joshua
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by jwealleans »

On more thing which really lifts these models and is much easier to do in the flat - cut off the moulded door handles and drill .5mm holes for brass ones. Drill holes for the commode (grab) handles while you're on. MJT do them as an etch (or you can use Comet handles and flattened wire) and they make far more difference than you'd think.

There's some discussion of the different diagrams here. If you don't have Nick Campling's yellow book you'll find it invaluable if you plan to build a few carriages. It seems to have become quite hard to find these days.
MikeTrice
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by MikeTrice »

If you look carefully at the toplight window openings and the top edge of the sides you will note that the edges are not a 90 degrees to the sides due to mould draft. This also makes the window openings slightly small. A simple improvement is to use a needle file to open up the toplights and a larger file to file back the top edge. Now the roof can seat better, with less of a visible gap.
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iainkirk
LNER N2 0-6-2T
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by iainkirk »

Some references are always handy.
Try these from Model Rail, written by Steve Banks who did frequent this forum once. A little ideo-syncratic but useful. He did also do some earlier articles in Railway Modeler but they are very auld; a lot has changed since then in terms of what bits are available.

Eastern Services in Transition - 8
- Historical: the LNER Gresley 61'6" gangwayed bogie van (BG) to D.43, D.113, D.245, D.260.
- A detailed account of the development strands, sorting out several misunderstandings over the years.
5pp, 8 illus. May 2005

Eastern Services in Transition - 9
- Part two of the above.
- Two models using Kirk and MJT kits of two variants re underframe and bogies. Finished in LNER and BR livery.
6pp, 18 illus. Jun 2005

PS. I am not "that" Ian Kirk...
Perfection is impossible, however I may choose to serve perfection - Robert Fripp
Quicksilver95
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:24 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by Quicksilver95 »

After some delay, some progress! Many thanks for all the advice and tips! I have decided to make a start on the body first, and make decisions regarding the underframe second!

Firstly, the sides were prepared. The toplights were opened up with a needle file as suggested. An order from Dart Castings secured some detail components for the grab handles and roof torpedo vents. After removing the moulded grab handles, suitable holes were drilled in the side of the carriage to accept the hand rails, with two shown trial fitted in the first photo.
IMG_2214.jpg
The sides were then assembled, with Plasticard being used to give the required rigidity at the carriage ends. These have been drilled to accept some small bolts to allow the floor to be removable, as suggested.
IMG_2222.jpg
IMG_2223.jpg
Two additional plasticard spacers were added to give extra rigidity and support given there are no internal partitions in the full brake.
IMG_2224.jpg
Some work has been done on filing the end profiles to better match the roof. Speaking of which, the roof has been cleaned up and holes drilled to accept MJT white metal torpedo vents.

More next time!

Joshua
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Looks like a good start - with some actual preparation too!
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by jwealleans »

What he said.

The bracing is a good idea - the only point I'd make is that I'd have put it at the top as the floor will serve the same purpose when you fit it (assuming you make it a snug fit. I've done the same with these in the past.
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Dave
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by Dave »

As JW and Atlantic say and I would also brace the top.
Quicksilver95
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:24 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by Quicksilver95 »

Thanks for the advice! I also had considered something at the top would be helpful too. I wanted something more central at the bottom however to prevent any potential buckling upwards of the floor when it goes in.

Will look to put some more spacers in the top next. Anyone got any tips on a decent primer? Is Halfords best for this? Planning on "teaking" the body first then attaching the roof and the gangway connections. That way the chances of spill under masking tape should be reduced. However I am slightly concerned that the paint will reduce the quality of the bonding surfaces. Is it worth me masking along the top of the body sides before priming and on the coach ends carefully to preserve some bare plastic for the bonding? What order does everyone else normally carry out these tasks in?

Joshua
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by jwealleans »

I stick it all together first and then paint it. That way if you have to use filler or anything else to fill gaps you're not touching up your paintwork again.

I use Halfords Filler Primer as a base for teak - it gives you a nice bright yellow base. Red Oxide if you want a darker, more aged finish.
Quicksilver95
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:24 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Quicksilver's Workbench - Small beginnings

Post by Quicksilver95 »

Tonight's task, firstly, the spacers were fitted to the top of the body. I inserted these above the double doors to prevent them interfering with the toplights. As it happens this works out ideally for access to the back of the various handrail holes for gluing at a later date. Some less visible work included further filing of the carriage ends, side and roof to achieve a better fit. That really is tedious going I must say. On the roof, the torpedo vents have been fixed in place with epoxy resin - hope this provides a durable bond!

IMG_2226.jpg

While talking about the roof though, what is the name and function of the highlighted component? How is it best modelled? I was thinking two layers of styrene then filed back to a wedge shape? Any better ideas?

IMG_2227.jpg
IMG_2228.jpg

Thanks in advance

Joshua
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