The Great Model Railway Challenge - an insult to one's intelligence
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Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge
I wasn't impressed, but that was more the format than the subject. I'm afraid the presenters irritated me as well.
It did take the hobby completely at face value, there was no sneering or patronising. Some individuals were set up for a fall, but that's part of the format as well.
I'd have liked to see more of the modelling itself, or maybe had more information about what they'd been given in advance, but I'm not the target audience. I doubt many vehicle restorers watched 'Salvage Squad' and I doubt many serious modellers will watch this other than for light entertainment and to see whether they recognise anyone. On the whole, though, it's positive publicity for the hobby and I don't think that's a bad thing.
It did take the hobby completely at face value, there was no sneering or patronising. Some individuals were set up for a fall, but that's part of the format as well.
I'd have liked to see more of the modelling itself, or maybe had more information about what they'd been given in advance, but I'm not the target audience. I doubt many vehicle restorers watched 'Salvage Squad' and I doubt many serious modellers will watch this other than for light entertainment and to see whether they recognise anyone. On the whole, though, it's positive publicity for the hobby and I don't think that's a bad thing.
Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge
Hence vested interests.notascoobie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:21 am I'm with John on the "Dark Side" thing. The site is owned by a commercial organisation and must pay due deference to commercial interests. ..
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Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge
I doubt that many (if any) reasonably sane railway modellers and potential new railway modellers would expect a nationally screened MRJTV, but remember that Bob Symes and the BBC, even way back in the 1970s, managed to include some reasonably serious railway modelling in the Model World series. That included sincere rather than gimmicky or falsely dramatized coverage of the construction of an attempt at a realistic portrayal of an actual location, albeit with the limitations imposed by using certain ready made items of the time, such as Mr Pritchard's girder-rail track. There was even a certain amount of coverage of such technically complex things as switches arranged to double up as point levers. No cheap false moments of tension, drama or approaching deadlines were considered necessary for the purposes of "entertainment", simply because no such need exists.
The potential for attainment of at least some sort of realism is the one and only thing that has kept me interested in railway modelling as an adult (or big kid) and I suspect the same is true for many of us. It's an opportunity to create a visually convincing, moving, physical, three dimensional representation of our railways in a classic era that I am too young to have seen in reality. Given that the very best ready made products now offer far better realism than was attainable "out of a box" in the 1970s, then even without MRJ style coverage of scratch building or elaborate kit-building, a modern version of a programme that might kindle and maintain serious interest rather than simply provide short-attention-span "kicks" ought to be perfectly possible.
The potential for attainment of at least some sort of realism is the one and only thing that has kept me interested in railway modelling as an adult (or big kid) and I suspect the same is true for many of us. It's an opportunity to create a visually convincing, moving, physical, three dimensional representation of our railways in a classic era that I am too young to have seen in reality. Given that the very best ready made products now offer far better realism than was attainable "out of a box" in the 1970s, then even without MRJ style coverage of scratch building or elaborate kit-building, a modern version of a programme that might kindle and maintain serious interest rather than simply provide short-attention-span "kicks" ought to be perfectly possible.
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Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge
O tempora, o mores.
(I should also point out that the only item in my railway room that has been likened to a dinosaur is me!)
(I should also point out that the only item in my railway room that has been likened to a dinosaur is me!)
Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge
Hi Folks I did approach the programme with some misgivings, all of which, and more, were fulfilled in spades. I am not sure this series will do much for scale railway modelling or any other sort of railway modelling, indeed it may well have put some potential recruits off altogether. I thought the most amusing comment was when a certain gentleman insisted that these layouts must not be called "Train sets" but "Model railways"
Personally I felt neither term at all appropriate as in my opinion what was being shown was "Toy Trains", no more, no less. The surprise to me was that the wartime layouts did not have an "Exploding ammunition wagon" Maybe these are now so collectable that the price was unaffordable.
I was also rather disappointed that the "Jurassic park" theme did not include a modified "Giraffe car", surely a major opportunity missed there. The whole concept of building anything in 24 hours to the rules that seem to have been drawn up was a sure fire guarantee that the layouts would be dire. I don't know if any commercial model railway organisations have had any financial input but, if they have, I hope they keep well clear in the future.
It's a good laugh but mainly at the expense of those who seem so serious about their efforts, especially the program organisers, If the winning layout is going to Warley ?? it is unlikely it would ever have been invited under normal circumstances.
Personally I felt neither term at all appropriate as in my opinion what was being shown was "Toy Trains", no more, no less. The surprise to me was that the wartime layouts did not have an "Exploding ammunition wagon" Maybe these are now so collectable that the price was unaffordable.
I was also rather disappointed that the "Jurassic park" theme did not include a modified "Giraffe car", surely a major opportunity missed there. The whole concept of building anything in 24 hours to the rules that seem to have been drawn up was a sure fire guarantee that the layouts would be dire. I don't know if any commercial model railway organisations have had any financial input but, if they have, I hope they keep well clear in the future.
It's a good laugh but mainly at the expense of those who seem so serious about their efforts, especially the program organisers, If the winning layout is going to Warley ?? it is unlikely it would ever have been invited under normal circumstances.
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Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge
I too found it, on watching, almost every bit as ghastly as I had feared after just seeing a trailer for the thing. In places it was worse than I feared.
There must be an opening in one of the daft themes for a team that can come up with an example of the Battlespace Turbo Car with Heavy Duty Ramming Spike.
But cheer up, it could have been even worse if made by the current BBC (Biased Broadcasting Corporation, perhaps better referred to now as a-BBC or anti-British Broadcasting Corporation). They would no doubt have insisted on so-called inclusiveness and heavy bias in favour of currently trendy minorities even if they are irrelevant to the theme and know nothing whatsoever about matter vital to the programme. Perhaps a compulsory layout in LGB(T) scale including a prominent non-gender-specific toilet block, and regular interruptions for Project Fear moments trying to tell us that we'll all die young in agony and extreme poverty if we dare to try to take back control of our own country?
There must be an opening in one of the daft themes for a team that can come up with an example of the Battlespace Turbo Car with Heavy Duty Ramming Spike.
But cheer up, it could have been even worse if made by the current BBC (Biased Broadcasting Corporation, perhaps better referred to now as a-BBC or anti-British Broadcasting Corporation). They would no doubt have insisted on so-called inclusiveness and heavy bias in favour of currently trendy minorities even if they are irrelevant to the theme and know nothing whatsoever about matter vital to the programme. Perhaps a compulsory layout in LGB(T) scale including a prominent non-gender-specific toilet block, and regular interruptions for Project Fear moments trying to tell us that we'll all die young in agony and extreme poverty if we dare to try to take back control of our own country?
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1
Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
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Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge
I hesitate in posting this, but...
We seem (as a hobby) unable to admit that we occasionally send ourselves up by reverting to literal poe faced ness. I have had quite a few people ask me about the new program on Channel 5, was in it (nope! I was asked but declined as unable to get the time off work).
I recognise a few faces from the other TV program - Biggest Little Railway - and it's clear there's a few people there enjoying their time in the sun. And why not?
No, it's not my cup of tea particularly either. I love Tim Shaw from Car SOS - met him at a car show, he's a delightful bloke - is he the right presenter? if he gets people drawn in to watch model railways, whatever you think of his style, then he is the right choice.
This is the second time this year I have seen criticism of a TV show where ordinary railway modellers/railway folk get together and put themselves out there for public viewing. It is the second time that the only real discernible and vocal critics of the show are in the hobby.
I am grateful to anyone who gets out there and puts themselves out there in the name of selling the hobby. It's all to the good because it guarantees a wider audience and we may pick up newcomers we wouldn't have had before.
Maybe we should just accept the will for the deed in the hope it gets better in the weeks to come? I applaud all who took part. It takes guts to get up and be filmed, as I have found several times this year.
Getting off my soapbox now. Sorry ladies and gents.
We seem (as a hobby) unable to admit that we occasionally send ourselves up by reverting to literal poe faced ness. I have had quite a few people ask me about the new program on Channel 5, was in it (nope! I was asked but declined as unable to get the time off work).
I recognise a few faces from the other TV program - Biggest Little Railway - and it's clear there's a few people there enjoying their time in the sun. And why not?
No, it's not my cup of tea particularly either. I love Tim Shaw from Car SOS - met him at a car show, he's a delightful bloke - is he the right presenter? if he gets people drawn in to watch model railways, whatever you think of his style, then he is the right choice.
This is the second time this year I have seen criticism of a TV show where ordinary railway modellers/railway folk get together and put themselves out there for public viewing. It is the second time that the only real discernible and vocal critics of the show are in the hobby.
I am grateful to anyone who gets out there and puts themselves out there in the name of selling the hobby. It's all to the good because it guarantees a wider audience and we may pick up newcomers we wouldn't have had before.
Maybe we should just accept the will for the deed in the hope it gets better in the weeks to come? I applaud all who took part. It takes guts to get up and be filmed, as I have found several times this year.
Getting off my soapbox now. Sorry ladies and gents.
Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge
I cannot personally why anyone who actually does Model Railways as a serious hobby, being interested in the programmes format.
What is it supposed to achieve a game show or what ?.I have no idea.
It perhaps may help attracting young persons/ new blood to become modellers in a very vague general sense. It has hardly any real reference to Model Railways, the same format could have been used for any virtually any hobby using your hands to achieve the end result. As its appears to be based on the overdone fashionable Bake Off format with daft time limits what is really ever going to achieve, Railway Modelling is never going to be a time limited hobby , modelling takes a lot of time to achieve a good result ?? . As usual another regular format used, one group portrayed the villains (if they even realised they were with careful editing etc) and the others the good guys, no surprise there either.
Sadly it did nothing for the publics general held image of Railway Modellers as Anoraks and in some cases wannabe TV stars.
What is it supposed to achieve a game show or what ?.I have no idea.
It perhaps may help attracting young persons/ new blood to become modellers in a very vague general sense. It has hardly any real reference to Model Railways, the same format could have been used for any virtually any hobby using your hands to achieve the end result. As its appears to be based on the overdone fashionable Bake Off format with daft time limits what is really ever going to achieve, Railway Modelling is never going to be a time limited hobby , modelling takes a lot of time to achieve a good result ?? . As usual another regular format used, one group portrayed the villains (if they even realised they were with careful editing etc) and the others the good guys, no surprise there either.
Sadly it did nothing for the publics general held image of Railway Modellers as Anoraks and in some cases wannabe TV stars.
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Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge
The acid test for me is that I would never admit to being a railway modeller to anyone on the basis of the presentation of my hobby by this programme
Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge - an insult to one's intelligence
Thus proving my point. How is a one off TV program so beyond the pale that you can't admit you're a railway modeller to people?
Do you do that now anyway, given the general public's view of us historically?
As for what it is supposed to achieve - publicity. For the hobby. Which it is doing - it's reaching a much wider audience than anything the vast majority of people in the hobby could attain.
It's effectively a series pilot - if it does well, new series get commissioned, if it doesn't, it ends.
I really struggle with the level of vitriol I've read online for this. I'd much rather we had a bit of fun at the expense of ourselves on the telly than get some of the bad, awful publicity we've seen elsewhere (Strictly? BB? Love Island?) where much worse has happened.
If at the end of the day it gets a few more kids into model railways, then so it be. Don't understand the anger or the condescension.
Do you do that now anyway, given the general public's view of us historically?
As for what it is supposed to achieve - publicity. For the hobby. Which it is doing - it's reaching a much wider audience than anything the vast majority of people in the hobby could attain.
It's effectively a series pilot - if it does well, new series get commissioned, if it doesn't, it ends.
I really struggle with the level of vitriol I've read online for this. I'd much rather we had a bit of fun at the expense of ourselves on the telly than get some of the bad, awful publicity we've seen elsewhere (Strictly? BB? Love Island?) where much worse has happened.
If at the end of the day it gets a few more kids into model railways, then so it be. Don't understand the anger or the condescension.
Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge - an insult to one's intelligence
Hi Folks I agree it is a good laugh but I am not sure that I am laughing at what those responsible intended me to laugh at, if indeed they expected me to laugh at all !! One of my friends is well into the MRJ Cameo layout challenge with his group. If that were to get some TV air time and be properly presented, without all the stupid comments, I think most modellers would be far more impressed. The rules are strict but much more sensible and the timescale is more in years than days. There may be some very amateurish cameos produced but I am pretty sure the top 5 would all deserve at least a half hour program each. I am not sure if it will be on TV but Warners/RMweb are involved so they may well try to get some mileage out of it, though not so much for our benefit. I'm have no idea if there will be any specifically LNER content but I know that at least one layout should be very impressive if it gets finished as planned. The main problem might be finding presenters competent enough to do a good job, I can't immediately come up with someone and certainly those who produce YouTube videos of unboxing the latest dud model would be automatically excluded !!
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Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge - an insult to one's intelligence
G'Day Gents
Fortunately, we don't get this in Oz, but I have to ask, is Richard Hammond, test driving the loco's and is there a ski jump on one of the layouts????????????????
manna
Fortunately, we don't get this in Oz, but I have to ask, is Richard Hammond, test driving the loco's and is there a ski jump on one of the layouts????????????????
manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge - an insult to one's intelligence
Sorry Adrian but you completely miss the point.
This programme is not aimed at us railway modellers (although we may or may not get some enjoyment from it). It is aimed at the 61.9 million other UK individuals who might just watch it and be captivated, enthralled, mildly interested enough to go further.
If it works say with 0.1% of the potential viewing audience than that probably doubles the number of UK modellers ( I can live in hopes). But in true reality, if there is a real interest as judged by viewing figures ( currently > 1 million), then we stand a good chance of getting some more serious programmes.
It is easy to dismiss the simplistic and forget where most of us started - a circle of track on a carpet or kitchen table.
This programme is not aimed at us railway modellers (although we may or may not get some enjoyment from it). It is aimed at the 61.9 million other UK individuals who might just watch it and be captivated, enthralled, mildly interested enough to go further.
If it works say with 0.1% of the potential viewing audience than that probably doubles the number of UK modellers ( I can live in hopes). But in true reality, if there is a real interest as judged by viewing figures ( currently > 1 million), then we stand a good chance of getting some more serious programmes.
It is easy to dismiss the simplistic and forget where most of us started - a circle of track on a carpet or kitchen table.
Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge - an insult to one's intelligence
You are completely right Exile, the programme is not aimed at us modellers.
One programme, I completely hate is Dancing on Ice, it is not real figure skating or ice dance. As a former competitive figure skater, coach and rink manager, I was embarrassed by the programme, quality of skating demonstrated (and what they were trying to teach the celebrities at a far too early stage) and it takes training time away from those with aspirations to get to international competitive level. That said, it proved to be a massive positive to the c. 50 ice rinks in the UK. Both general public session attendance and enrolments onto the learn to skate courses went through the roof during the periods when the show was on the air. It brought a great many people into the sport who wouldn't have otherwise considered trying and allowed rinks to hit a good portion of their income targets in a matter of months (during the period of the year when things would usually start to quieten down) . It has also convinced some local authorities to refurbish ancient facilities (c. £3-£7M investments) as well as seeing some more new rink builds start.
The Great Model Railway Challenge doesn't have the kind of viewing figures that DOI had/has but if it has the same effect, it can only end up being a positive for manufacturers, clubs and the hobby in general in the longer term. After all, we frequently read in the modelling press that we need to attract more new people into the hobby. Most (but not all) people start with little knowledge and then (some) progress further and want to understand the details of how the railway ran. Hitting them with finescale and operating details generally tends to overload newcomers and pushes them away. Yes, the programme's format could do with some tweaking but it is the first season and something that is new to everybody.
I quite enjoy the programme myself but this is more because it has gained my girlfriend's interest and she is starting to ask questions regarding how things are done (having previously been supportive but otherwise uninterested). She also tells me that several of the kids at the school she teaches at talk about it positively at great length - surely that is our hobby's target audience.
One programme, I completely hate is Dancing on Ice, it is not real figure skating or ice dance. As a former competitive figure skater, coach and rink manager, I was embarrassed by the programme, quality of skating demonstrated (and what they were trying to teach the celebrities at a far too early stage) and it takes training time away from those with aspirations to get to international competitive level. That said, it proved to be a massive positive to the c. 50 ice rinks in the UK. Both general public session attendance and enrolments onto the learn to skate courses went through the roof during the periods when the show was on the air. It brought a great many people into the sport who wouldn't have otherwise considered trying and allowed rinks to hit a good portion of their income targets in a matter of months (during the period of the year when things would usually start to quieten down) . It has also convinced some local authorities to refurbish ancient facilities (c. £3-£7M investments) as well as seeing some more new rink builds start.
The Great Model Railway Challenge doesn't have the kind of viewing figures that DOI had/has but if it has the same effect, it can only end up being a positive for manufacturers, clubs and the hobby in general in the longer term. After all, we frequently read in the modelling press that we need to attract more new people into the hobby. Most (but not all) people start with little knowledge and then (some) progress further and want to understand the details of how the railway ran. Hitting them with finescale and operating details generally tends to overload newcomers and pushes them away. Yes, the programme's format could do with some tweaking but it is the first season and something that is new to everybody.
I quite enjoy the programme myself but this is more because it has gained my girlfriend's interest and she is starting to ask questions regarding how things are done (having previously been supportive but otherwise uninterested). She also tells me that several of the kids at the school she teaches at talk about it positively at great length - surely that is our hobby's target audience.
Steve
Re: The Great Model Railway Challenge - an insult to one's intelligence
Quote
I quite enjoy the programme myself but this is more because it has gained my girlfriend's interest and she is starting to ask questions regarding how things are done (having previously been supportive but otherwise uninterested). She also tells me that several of the kids at the school she teaches at talk about it positively at great length - surely that is our hobby's target audience.
If the Target Audience is for children, then its on too late for many ,5pm would have been better.
I quite enjoy the programme myself but this is more because it has gained my girlfriend's interest and she is starting to ask questions regarding how things are done (having previously been supportive but otherwise uninterested). She also tells me that several of the kids at the school she teaches at talk about it positively at great length - surely that is our hobby's target audience.
If the Target Audience is for children, then its on too late for many ,5pm would have been better.