Cinema Coach - Flying Scotsman Feb 13, 1924

[Graeme Leary]

Before I've even completed my current project, inspired by a photo in 'LNER Reflections' and youtube 'In the Van 1932', another couple, also from 'LNER Reflections' have caught my eye. Regrettably 'LNER Reflections' pages are not numbered but these are in the sub-chapter 'Passenger stock and train catering' and show a Cinema coach converted from what is described as a GNR Saloon. However, despite a look through Nick Campling's Historic Carriage Drawings it isn't obvious to me if it's one of the drawings shown there and I'd be pleased to hear what the saloon coach may have been, or, even better, if there is an RTR coach that could be readily converted to something not too dissimilar. (And I now have the appropriate transfers on order from Fox Transfers so I'm on the proverbial 'roll').

One again, as I've still not mastered the arcane art of posting pictures on the forum I can't show the photos I refer to but hopefully you all will have a copy of this marvellous tome.

(John S - thought I'd throw this out into the 'public domain')

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

[UpDistant]

Graeme

Some info here: https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-a ... inema-cars

John

[jwealleans]

There's no RTR GN coach (yet) that I'm aware of. A Margate Hornby might be able to be hacked into what you need. I'd stick with the converted BG, much less work.

[markeg]

Hi Graeme,

From across the ditch. According to Steve Banks, an authority on the LNER and its passenger trains and formations, He says there is little known about the ex-GNR saloon. This is from his book, LNER Passenger Trains and Formations 1923-1967.

From what I understand the LNER converted Full Brake/Baggage coaches to run as Cinema Cars. Hornby made one a few years ago. These are quite expensive or you could find an Ian Kirk Kit or make up an etch brass kit. Comet and MJT make these. I made an Ian Kirk kit when Hornby announced one. I have another 2 kits to make.

Just missed posting this. But as above.

Mark

[Seagull]

Looking at the picture in the book it appears to be numbered as 6, it was later renumbered as 46 and used in the Northern Belle cruising train.
This is confirmed by the diagram on Steve Banks' website and it's a GN 45C 1st class saloon. I believe there was only one anyway.

At one point Bill Bedford did list either a kit or more likely a set of etches for this, but having just looked on his website there is now no reference to it.

Alan

[JASd17]

The 1924 version was a one-off, not a regular service. Although Graeme seems drawn to these unique events.

Below is Roy Mears' version (built for Mark Allatt) of the later BG conversion which ran for some time on Leeds expresses. Seen here on Grantham.

The carriage is a modified Kirk kit. The interior is modelled too.

John

[Graeme Leary]

Thanks all and references to Steve Bank's tome - looks like another BG kit it will be (but with my skills in that regard I was hoping there was another 'acceptable' alternative). However, I do have a Comet BG kit which I was unable to sell at a recent swap-meet so have the product to start with.

(Yes John, so you've noticed how easily I can be distracted by something a tad different?)

Graeme

[JonBates]

Hello

I’ve just caught up with this discussion.

Earlier this year I spoke with Bill Bedford about the Saloon no46. He is considering releasing it as a resin cast kit. If anyone else who is interested contacts Bill to register their interest it might move the kit up the priority list.

My interest in this saloon is because I have a long term project to model the Northern Belle day portion.

Jon

[Graeme Leary]

At the risk of this being (another) daft question nothing I've read states the cinema coach was of the 'classic' Teak construction. To the uninitiated (me) the depth of colour in the LNER Reflections photo could suggest all sorts of alternatives along with the apparent lack of graining (certainly compared with the many restored teak coaches I've seen at eg NRM, NYMR, the coach museum at Keighley and those at Severn Valley).

However as the cinema coach was previously a GNR BG maybe that should tell me it MUST be Teak (forgive my ignorance on this fact) and the 2 ''hazy' black and white postings in the Steve Banks 'Historic Carriages' link indicate this too. Probably the clincher should be the Roy Mear's version from Grantham posted by JASd17 but confirmation would be appreciated (and, should I get my replication wrong, if only to avoid the ribbing from any displaced LNER modeller currently living here in New Zealand).

Thanks in anticipation and now for my next 'unique' project - the Anglo-Scottish car carrier on p113 of Michael Harris's 'LNER Carriages'. Questions will be placed in due course.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

[JASd17]

All the cinema carriages would have been teak Graeme.

That is the original Saloon and the converted BGs.

John

[Graeme Leary]

Thanks John, just wanted to be 100% sure.

Graeme

[Graeme Leary]

Supplementary question.

Reading the link to Steve Banks 'Historic Carriages of LNER' from Updistant mention is made of the 'fug' from the smokers and the 'enhanced ventilators' over the viewing area. (Hard to think back to those less stringent days without preoccupation with healthy 'outcomes').

The photo in the link of 4040, a diagram 113 BG (but not that clear on detail) suggests it had 2 ventilators, (not dissimilar to those on the triplet restaurant cars), one fairly central, the other towards the end with 3 torpedo vents between them, and 3, maybe 4 torpedo vents, spaced over the remaining 1/2 of the coach. One presumes the seating starts just ahead of the central vent and goes through to the more 'aft' vent (and on the return journey the passengers had their backs to the direction of travel as the coach would have been unlikely to have been turned).

The other photo, 4041 diagram 226, shows what looks to me like 3 more closely (and centrally spaced) 'restaurant car type' ventilators and only a couple of 'bumps' (silhouetted against the skyline) that might be torpedo vents. I would guess there were more torpedo type vents than this.

I will probably model 4040 (the diagram 113) but as no roof details in any of my reference books showing the actual position of vent types and positions on either cinema car any help gratefully received.

Thanks again in anticipation.

Graeme Leary

[Dave]

Sorry Graeme, can't help you I've been looking for info on these for sometime but the only drawing I have come across is for the cell box ironwork.
I had thought there would be a lot of info on the conversions but no, I assume that it was all lost when the service stopped and the info was not required.
So a good photo is your best bet and as the info is scarce nobody can argue.

[Graeme Leary]

Thanks Dave, will take a punt and work to what from the Steve Banks shot appears to be the roof 'furniture' on 4040. Probably as good a guide as any (as long as my pedantic friends over here don't nail me to the wall if they've got some more detailed info or photos).

Graeme

[Dave]

In that case Graeme I would not take any notice of them and bollock them for not helping in the first place.