Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

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Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by Graeme Leary » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:45 pm

My last faux pas behind me (re wrong assembly of car ends - again thanks all) and now on to the interiors.

I have been hassling a couple of forum members direct but maybe out in the 'public domain'? This is to do with interiors on the Restaurant cars. As well as their input I have been able to find enough photos of the interiors of 1sts to give me a good indication on how to finish them (for my late 20s/early 30s sets) but photos of interiors of 3rd Restaurants I've had no luck finding.

So this query is regarding the Restaurant 3rds - (a) curtains and (b) table lamps.

Regarding curtains, an experienced modeller here originally from the Northeast and quite an authority on Pullman coaches commented that 3rd class Pullman coaches (used in the 'premier' expresses) didn't have curtains and he therefore thought it highly likely neither would have triplet set Restaurant 3rd cars (as prestigious as the 'Flying Scotsman' undoubtedly was). I've found some odd photos of 3rd open and compartment interiors (but not Restaurants) and they do not show curtains but any comments either yay or nay would give me a lead (and my contact here would be very happy to have this supposition confirmed or otherwise).

Similarly not finding interior photos of 3rd Restaurants I'm wondering if the tables carried table lamps. Would make sense they did but then again , maybe the 'riff raff' in the 3rd were expected to manage.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

markeg
NER Y7 0-4-0T
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:05 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by markeg » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:46 am

Hi Graeme,

He is right about 3rd's not having curtains. This seems to be across the board with LNER coaches, including the Silver Jubilee and Coronation coaches.
I will go and check my RTS, but I don't think 3rd's had table lamps either. I recall seeing a photo with the light fitted above the window in a pelma

markeg
NER Y7 0-4-0T
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:05 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by markeg » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:13 am

Hi Graeme,

I am back. Just as I was typing the batteries went flat in the keyboard. So to continue.

The 3rd's had a pelmet over the window which contained a light which was projected upwards. They would have had lights in the ceiling of the coach too. You could just paint/draw on white table cutlery and plates, etc.
over the pond.
Mark in Oz

Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by Graeme Leary » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:03 pm

Thanks Mark - in the interest of 'Anzac spirit" I will stick with your comments regarding curtains and table lamps in 3rds (but fitting a pelmet might just test my stubby fingers - and patience - too much, as well as not being visible!) Tables and cutlery will be as you suggest which you can actually see from the outside (unlike the seats and the bodies on them) however my wife tells me she has some tiny round white stickers so they might be the plates which I can fix to my yet to be decided what colour table tops - possibly a varnished wood look so the plates stand out.

Who ever knew a small, seemingly uncomplicated kit would have so many curly queries to sort out (and why hadn't someone taken interior photos of 3rds 80-90 years ago? Maybe those good folk couldn't afford a box brownies way back then.

Graeme

Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by Graeme Leary » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:43 am

Greetings all,

Thought I had sent this but apparently not.

I have almost finally completed my Comet Triplet kit but have to admit not entirely happy with the result despite all the assistance I've had from various forum members. Some kit builders 'have it', others not - and I'm one of them!

However, made me think that if there were enough modellers (presumably mainly LNER) out there to have Rails of Sheffield's recent run of their Dynamometer car sell out entirely (despite various misgivings about the accuracy) could there not be a similar number, despite the triplet set being available in kit form, who would purchase a RTR triplet set if they're trying to depict a reasonably accurate FS formation from the 1920s/30s period? I know I would (price being relative) and have in fact put this to Rails to consider for any future 'commissions' they may be looking at Hopefully they would consult with someone to get the finer details correct. (Last year when in the UK it was mentioned to me that the 'later' Hornby teak series were 'pretty accurate' and I presume this meant their R4170/1/2 range which would fit in with the finish other modellers - not kit builder - might already have).

Obviously not sure if any agreement on this but if so maybe the more that indicate an interest to them there may be a positive result for us less adept modellers.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

60048
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:50 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by 60048 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:31 pm

Hi Graeme,
It would be nice if Rails did take this up - there seems to a be a lot of renewed interest from independent producers now to look at smaller runs that the big boys wouldn't be interested in.

Im thinking about having a go at CAD designing, and then 3D printing in 4mm, one of the FS triplet sets. I will be sending for the Isinglass drawings shortly. This thread has been really interesting on some of the detail, and the comment about the ends being different. How did you come up with the interior layout for your coach kits if you don't mind me asking - or have you left them empty?

Rich
Rich

Interested in all LNER (the original, not modern one!) pre-grouping, pre-Nationalisation and under BR)

Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by Graeme Leary » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:11 am

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the support re RTR - and wlll look forward to what you come up with in the 3D line

I am hardly the oracle on this and there were a lot of 'compromises' (modeller's Rule 1 which I have been informed can be acceptable) so for the seating I used the moulded plastic seats out of the 3 old style Hornby coaches I cannibalised to use the underframes for the triplet set kit. (These also are not accurate but I did fix Dart Castings dynamos, battery boxes, vacuum cylinders etc for a reasonable degree of accuracy even if the trusses are definitely not kosher).

I cut the moulded plastic seats into 2/3rd and 1/3rd to get the double seats on one side and the singles on the other). With a lot of help from a couple of other forum members I painted them in the appropriate colours (dark green for 1st and deepish red (wine) for the 3rds and accept these are not completely accurate as the study of teak coach interiors seems to be a science in itself. You could go balmy deciding whether to do 'free-standing' moveable seats (as in some) or fixed seats and all depends on the set date/s you settle on. I also fitted antimacassars using narrow (very) strips of white adhesive paper across the seat tops.

For the curtains (1st class only - not in 3rds) I cut down the hemmed edge of an old dark green bed sheet and glued either side of the windows.

For the tables I cut up 'iced-lolly' sticks into the depth of both the single and double seats, folded some adhesive matt paper (to hopefully look like cotton/damask table cloths), and stuck on to the sticks which I then mounted on 2 high very short lengths of matches to build up to the required height under the windows and glued in place. (Also using black ink I drew roughly the look of cutlery - bit Heath Robinson but okay). The tricky decision was whether or not to fix the passengers on to the seats before fitting the tables but I decided to do this after fixing the tables in place (and trimmed back the white lead Dart Castings and/or Langley miniatures to slide down on to the seats). It is certainly easier fixing the bums on seats before putting them in but this tended to narrow down the space between facing seats making the space for the tables too limited. Also some of the miniatures are too high even when seated that the tables end up being higher than the bottom of the windows.

I also fitted Dart Castings table lamps on the 1st class tables (don't think they were a feature for the riff-raff travelling in 3rd) and these are unlit.

One huge mistake I did make was to use CA glue on some of the fixing as the fumes affected the clear plastic I had used for the windows giving them a clouded (and opaque look) so I am currently completely stripping out these interiors from both restaurant cars and refixing using PVA glue or epoxy resin. Pain in the proverbial (and the CA glue needs proper ventilation and/or mask otherwise you'll think your modelling days are over - as I did after a day working on the above without these precautions).

Hope of help (and I think this is what you asked for, apologies for probably too much detail).

Graeme

Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by Graeme Leary » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:43 am

Hi again Rich,

PS to the last one sent.

If you want to see many aspects of building this triplet kit and some really brilliant examples of seats go to 'Dave's C & W Works'. Dave's posting around June 2012 will show you how seats should be done - much more professional than my cobbled together versions using old Hornby RTR coach interior seats.

However as have not mastered the art of posting shots on the forum I'm happy to send you some direct if you let me have your email address.

Graeme

60048
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:50 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by 60048 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:07 pm

Graeme,
Thanks for the reply - that's much appreciated, and I am always of the view that more detail is best, as people can choose to ignore it or run with it!

I'll drop you a PM, and once the drawings arrive, I'll post the thread here (if thats ok) as to how the CAD work progresses, prior to 3D printing.

Rich
Rich

Interested in all LNER (the original, not modern one!) pre-grouping, pre-Nationalisation and under BR)

Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by Graeme Leary » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:15 am

Back in an earlier posting I mentioned I'd fitted anti-macassars to the seats in the restaurant cars and also that due to using CA glue I have had to redo the interiors of each of them. (The CA glue gives off appalling fumes which obscures the plastic - used for the glazing - resulting in a clouded effect).

On redoing the 1st class I have added new anti-macassars to the seats but before I redo the 3rd class seats, would they have also had anti-macassars? I have found photos of 1st class cars showing them fitted but not 3rd class and I have this (probably unfounded) theory that these finer touches would/may not have been done in 3rds.

Graeme Leary

JASd17
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1117
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:21 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by JASd17 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:22 pm

Graeme,

I would suggest you are correct no antimacassars in Third class.

On a different note, your cricketers were not at their best today at Lords.

John

Dave
LNER A3 4-6-2
Posts: 1342
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: Centre of the known universe York

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by Dave » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:28 pm

Yes no antimacassars to 3rd class.

Oh scratch your eyes out you bitch John.......but oh so true.

Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Restaurant triplet set - 'finer' details

Post by Graeme Leary » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:01 am

Thanks John and Dave for the anti-macassar info (and also thanks for reminding me of the result against the 'under-armers' - maybe I should consider letting Mr Stead know I;m still available, if a little decrepit!)

Graeme

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