Queen of Scots

[Graeme Leary]

I started a series of posts way back (2012 I think) concerning locos that worked the QOS. I didn't follow through my intention at that time to add QOS to my collection of expresses but now I'm giving it some serious thought.

From responses then and other sources I now have the loco issue sorted out and am planning to have my QOS worked by a C1 (as shown in 'Named Trains on LNER Lines - Part 1' in May 1932 (p86) and 1935 - no month specified (p87). Due to these photos (as evidence for any sceptics), these dates are the preferred option as I want to feature a different loco to the 4 A1s I have headed for working my 'Flying Scotsman' and 'West Riding Pullman' expresses (plus I have a C1 model available which will hopefully just require renumbering).

However there are 2 conflicting comments on the number of coaches in the sets - Banks and Carter's 'LNER Passenger Trains and Formations 1923-67' states (p172) that when the name was changed from Harrogate Pullman to QOS in 1928 there were 2 x 7 car sets introduced and yet I also have 3 or 4 other references to 8 car sets, with both sources provide actual carriage detail of reach number. (On October 21, 2012 Saint Johnstoun kindly offered to email me directly details of the QOS sets pre-war but I had a major crash 3 or 4 years back and all my emails disappeared so unable to refer back).

The photo of the May 1932 set (p86) definitely appears to be 7 cars but the 1935 photo (p87) is not so clear. Also, the distinction between the cream and umber livery is not so evident in May 1932 photo; almost appearing to be one colour overall but this could be as it's a black and white photos and I imagine it is highly unlikely that there were any livery variations. (There is a note in Antony Ford's Pullman Profile No 3 to 20 cars loaned to LNER in the 'wartime guise' as overall brown but my date/s are well before this).

Any clarification of number of cars (and the side livery issue) would be very helpful and much appreciated.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

[Graeme Leary]

Please ignore my last posting.

I have just located the replies to my earlier queries in 2012 (plus a detailed list of all Pullman expresses from the Pullman Society) and have therefore been able to get the answer regarding the composition of the sets at that time. (And they all confirm that the sets were 8 carriages, not 7 as in Banks and Carters 'LNER Trains and Formations').

Apologies to all.

Graeme Leary

[Seagull]

Hello Graeme,

Just to confuse you further.....

The 1935 Great Northern section winter carriage woring list shows 7 carriages:- (north is at the top) set 1/set 2

Brake 3rd - 78 / 80
Kitchen 3rd - 70 / 69
Parlour 3rd - 76 / 74
Parlour 1st - Sheila / Agatha
Kitchen 1st - Thelma / Phyllis
(8th carriage)
Kitchen 3rd - 71 / 67
Brake 3rd - 77 / 79

I have the GN winter 1936-7, ECML summer 1938 and ECML 1939 lists and they are exactly the same showing 7 carriages

Every picture I have seen in the late 30s only shows 7 carriages in use, though I would suggest at busy times like Easter and other holidays you can be pretty sure that the 8th carriage would have been used.
The 8th carriage supplied in the 1928 sets was a Parlour 3rd which would normally be fitted in the blank line I left above and is shown as 73 / 75.

Alan

[Graeme Leary]

Many thanks for that Alan.

I must admit a 7 carriage set is preferred due to platform lengths on my layout so I'm very happy to work to the formation you've shown (and apologies to Banks and Carter).

Graeme