Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

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Paul_sterling
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Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:42 pm

Hi Folks,

I briefly mentioned this one in the Q1/2 Build thread.

Some time ago, I bought a resin kit of No.29, which as it turns out, is frankly awful. Very poor moulds, with numerous voids and distortions. As a result, I was less than inclined to build it, and the (hopeful) success of the Q1/2 build has emboldened me to either substitute some printed parts, or replace altogether.

ImageCAD draft 20190417 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

LH&JC No.29
The CAD is devoid of perspective, so it might look a little off, but it shouldn't be too far out. I am planning to pay the NYMR a visit at some point in the near future to take dimensions, and have spoke to one of the workshop managers as a starting point. There is a number of radii missing from the CAD model, as they are the last things to be applied.

ImageIMG_20190405_152620 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

This is the replacement frames with some of the resin parts sat atop. To be honest, much of the resin is of such poor provenance, that I am at the point of replacing more of it.

As this was not an LNER engine, but is very NER in its styling, operated in the North East, and is preserved on an Ex-NER/LNER route, would I be okay to produce a thread on this too? As Graeme has pointed out to me, Kitson built No.29 is similar if not identical in many respects to the Kitson engines which were sold to the Hull and Barnsley Railway, to name just one, and is a pioneering engine on one of the premier preserved North Eastern railway routes.

https://www.lner.info/locos/N/n11.php

https://www.lner.info/locos/N/n6.php

Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by drmditch » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:52 am

I don't know whether you have seen the thread started by Richard (who keeps this forum going for us) ..... here....

I did take some detail photographs of No. 29 which if you wish I can post or send to you via PM.

(Apologies in advance for having confused the builders of the two 'Lambton Tanks')

Paul_sterling
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:33 am

Brilliant thank you.

I was unaware of the LLT, so having their webpage is another step forward.

Reviewing the dimensions, it looks like the donor chassis is slightly too short on wheelbase, but that is a lot less hassle and expense than making one.

The pictures would be most helpful, I'd be most grateful if you could send them. PM, image host, dropbox, etc, any of those would be brilliant. I'm still planning to go and measure the engine up, as some dimensions continue to bug me. I'd create an outline drawing from that.

Thanks,
Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by drmditch » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:26 pm

Not sure if I can post these at full size - I will try!
Post_L29_01.jpg
Post_l29_02.jpg
Post_L29_03.jpg
Post_L29_04.jpg
Not brilliant pictures, but they may help!

Paul_sterling
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:28 pm

Excellent thank you for those, they will help a lot! The forward facing pic should help with scaling the smokebox, and high level pics are always great for upper detail (and are often rare! try finding a high level pic of a Q1.............)

Cheers, Paul.

Paul_sterling
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:38 pm

There is a magnificent shot of No.29 approaching Bridge 30, from 12.30 onwards. I think that is one of the best sounding whistles outside of the A4 chime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZhpJ4qM78c


Judging by the exhaust, No.29 is doing most of the work while the K1 has a nap........!

Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by ArthurK » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:41 pm

These might help .
Book 9 044_003.jpg
slide529.jpg
slide530.jpg
ArthurK

Paul_sterling
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:33 am

Lovely, thanks Arthur.

Cheers, Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:26 pm

One of the pictures I have found during my research, as well as those kindly provided to me, was an almost ideal level and side-on view of No.29, using known dimensions, I checked the X and Y scaling of the pic, which for once were identical, so I could then print off the picture for a referenced measurement, re scale on the computer, and print off size-for-size OO Scale. I used similar methods for sizing the drawings correctly on the Q1, which in the case of one or two of the drawings for that Loco, the X and Y scaling were different, knocking the proportions of the drawings out and requiring correction.

This has allowed me to produce a dimension-ed line drawing and to lay the thus far printed parts over for verification. It ties up well with the info thus far provided, and I'll be able to better confirm once i've measured the engine itself.

ImageIMG_20190426_122339[1] by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

ImageIMG_20190426_122322[1] by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

The wheelbase is around 3-4mm short, and this shows up at the front, where the front axle is further back on the model over the prototype, necessitating longer wheel splashers. the alternative is that I bring the chassis forward slightly, and I may yet do that, but that will risk causing other issues, particularly in respect of the tanks, as the chassis would need 3-4mm milled from its front face to allow said forward movement. With using a proprietary chassis, it was never going to be perfect. I am however giving consideration to fitting new wheels, as they are around 1mm too small.

Paul.

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richard
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by richard » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:13 pm

Yes I have a soft spot for No. 29 :-)

As for on-topic, yes for the same reasons as the Aberford Railway or Seahouses line - although we're not an NCB site...

I don't have time with a 3yr old, but my plan for a 7mm one would have been to find some drawings, and then build the Connoisseur NER 0-6-2T, and scratch build No. 29 alongside. I haven't scratch built a loco before, and I could have copied the general design/layout but substitute pieces and dimensions as required.
Richard Marsden
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:13 pm

richard wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:13 pm
Yes I have a soft spot for No. 29 :-)

As for on-topic, yes for the same reasons as the Aberford Railway or Seahouses line - although we're not an NCB site...

I don't have time with a 3yr old, but my plan for a 7mm one would have been to find some drawings, and then build the Connoisseur NER 0-6-2T, and scratch build No. 29 alongside. I haven't scratch built a loco before, and I could have copied the general design/layout but substitute pieces and dimensions as required.
I know what you mean Richard. I have a little boy who will be two in July. Most of my model railway work takes place once hes been put to bed.
Once the drawings are done in 4mm, i can send you copies as a starting point if you wish?

Thanks.
Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by richard » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:21 pm

Paul, Yes that would be great - scaling up should be simple enough. Any inaccuracies from scaling would definitely be in the "looks right" range.
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Paul_sterling
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Wed May 01, 2019 12:22 pm

No worries Richard.

I'm off to Grosmont next week, and once happy with the dimensions, I'll conclude the drawings.

Cheers, Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Thu May 02, 2019 12:23 pm

Out of interest, does anyone know what the wheel base (both coupled and total) is for the GWR 56xx?

Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Thu May 02, 2019 12:29 pm

I've scaled off a drawing, so approximately, a 56xx is 14'7" Coupled wheelbase, and 21' total, if anyone can confirm for sure that would be really helpful.

I'm just pondering the use of a 56xx chassis, as then wheel dia, and now the couple wheelbase are closer to No.29 than a J72 is.

Cheers, Paul.

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