Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

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john coffin
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by john coffin » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:45 am

Useful to know Paul.
As for your Green, I think it looks more Doncaster than Darlington or Gateshead, or indeed even Hawthorn Green.

Still like your work.

Paul

Paul_sterling
NER J27 0-6-0
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:18 am

Thanks Paul,

If it looks like Doncaster Green, then we're doing okay, as that is the colour (the real) No.29 is supposedly sporting at present.

The chew on I've had with this new-fangled-painting-in-colour malarkey, I think i'll stick to black engines in the future..........

Anyway, I've just been to check on the efforts, having left it over the weekend to cure, and it looks okay, it hasn't lightened up as much as it did on the first coats, so it might be somewhere near the shade of the V2 tender it was compared to earlier in this thread.

I had planned to paint the smokebox and cab roof with Acryllic matt black (Halfords - excellent stuff), but with I've got the Humbrol weathering powders (which are ground enamel), and those can be used to paint quite effectively, so I think i'll use those, they give a good matt black that's been heated up by the smokebox effect, the Q1 and a few others were finished in that way.

Paul.
Last edited by Paul_sterling on Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:33 am

While No.29 has been drying/curing, I've done some more sanding on the 0-6-0 (s) in readiness for their painting.

ImageIMG_20190915_131247 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr
The one that is predominantly grey is the taller (earlier) 0-6-0, whilst the yellow/white one is the later lower ride height version.

ImageIMG_20190915_131254 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr
The cab is still to prime and fill on one of them, but otherwise they're more of less there. The patchwork appearance reflects the areas which have needed filling, a curse of the FDM printing mechanism, it can be minimised with smaller tips and thinner slice heights, but there is always a degree of "layering" and woodgrain effect. Other printing systems minimise or avoid this, but FDM is generally one of the cheaper processes, and the one that is most accessible to hobbyists like us.

ImageIMG_20190915_131302 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

ImageIMG_20190915_131309 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:08 am

ImageIMG_20190916_121704 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

It looked good on its own..............




ImageIMG_20190916_221914 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

but WAAAAY too dark when compared to another LNER green engine.

Am I being stupid or is there a difference between Doncaster Green and LNER Apple Green?

and does anyone know or have a cross reference to take the RA colours to RAL/BS?

Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:55 am

Is that the same paint as you previously showed? If so, why does the colour look so different this time?

My first ever tin of Phoenix Precision Doncaster green, years ago, was disappointingly dark and mossy as suggested by your latest image of the tank engine. It matched no other LNER green loco I had and was only acceptable when lightened by dull-finish pale grey weathering. I used it up on non-loco paint jobs. The next tin of the "same" paint gave the much more pleasing bright "apple" green finish like that Bachmann tender.

Being more experienced and confident these days, if I received another tin like the first one I would insist on a better replacement or kick up quite a stink if replacement was refused, but that's just my current personal feeling.....
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.

Paul_sterling
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:20 pm

Atlantic 3279 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:55 am
Is that the same paint as you previously showed? If so, why does the colour look so different this time?

My first ever tin of Phoenix Precision Doncaster green, years ago, was disappointingly dark and mossy as suggested by your latest image of the tank engine. It matched no other LNER green loco I had and was only acceptable when lightened by dull-finish pale grey weathering. I used it up on non-loco paint jobs. The next tin of the "same" paint gave the much more pleasing bright "apple" green finish like that Bachmann tender.

Being more experienced and confident these days, if I received another tin like the first one I would insist on a better replacement or kick up quite a stink if replacement was refused, but that's just my current personal feeling.....
Thanks Graeme, yes same spray paint tin

I did get a replacement tin, but because the cap on the first tin had been damaged in transit, and leaked some paint out. I'll try it out on something else I think first before using it on any of the locos, but I'll be surprised (and worried) if two tins of Railmatch produce different shades.

I think its darker because the initial coats may well have been lightened by the yellow primer beneath, but paint on paint has not lightened up as it did previously. THe more i've looked into RA014 "Doncaster Green" the more i've found that it is a very dark shade anyway (i.e. just like what i've pictured above) so I think that the LNER apple green we've come to know is more like Darlington Green, or lighter still, something resembling "Light Buckingham Green", which was an LNER colour.

Anyway, I've popped out to Smith and Allan, and got a spray tin of tractol 329 (RAL6011 ) made up, which was matched against the tender by the colour cards, so hopefully a lot closer. I'll report back once one of the engines has had a coat on.

Thanks, Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:27 pm

I'm having no luck with green paint!

6011 is too pale, I think there has been a mixup with the cards in the shop, and what they thought was the old 6011 card, was the new one, so its out of the running now too!

These RAL colours may be closer to the required.
https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.as ... RAL%206010
https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.as ... RAL%206017

With this as an outsider (as its a little too bright)
https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.as ... RAL%206037

Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by john coffin » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:21 pm

Basic rule when painting colours other than black, particularly ones like Green which has so many
shades, is to make some paint guides.

Use a similar material, in your class print a couple of flat sheets, and spray with the undercoat
you intend to use. Let it dry at least overnight
then spray with the colour you are trying to use. mask off parts of the sheet, then try different
parts of the sheet, with stronger or weaker mixes till you hit it right.

HTH

Paul

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:34 am

john coffin wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:21 pm
Basic rule when painting colours other than black, particularly ones like Green which has so many
shades, is to make some paint guides.

Use a similar material, in your class print a couple of flat sheets, and spray with the undercoat
you intend to use. Let it dry at least overnight
then spray with the colour you are trying to use. mask off parts of the sheet, then try different
parts of the sheet, with stronger or weaker mixes till you hit it right.

HTH

Paul
Thanks Paul.

I wrote a somewhat longer reply than this, but the computer refreshed, so I lost it (butter fingers!)

Anyway, I'm going to try either BS381C 218 or RAL6010, which are both similar, and both called Grass Green.

I'm limited to changing mixtures, as I paint using spray tins, work of the devil I know, but I'm not set up for spray equipment yet, or talented enough....

Paul.

john coffin
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by john coffin » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:59 am

Spraying is not as difficult as many imagine, however I do understand.

In earlier days, it was common to spray from the can into the bowl/paint cup/glass bottle
in your spray gun, ie a cheap air brush, thin it a bit, and then spray.

Paul

Paul_sterling
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:17 am

Thanks Paul,

Ironically, my father is a good sprayer (of full-size cars), therein is the problem, he won't let me near anything!

Are there any particular brands/setups you would (or anyone else) like to recommend?

Thanks, Paul.

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by john coffin » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:05 pm

To be honest, I have not checked the recent offerings, I still have my old airbrushes,
but I have used the old Humbrol one. With the lack of model shops in the London area,
I have not looked around. You might try Hobbycraft in their plastic model section.

However, having looked on line today there are some very cheap complete kits for people
who make cakes or do tattoos. They are under £ 50.00 including a compressor. In the old days
we used air cans, but I am not sure if they are still available, also tyres and an adaptor.

They may not be top quality, but if as you say your dad does not think you can paint, then you could learn.
I understand that many people complain about cheap airbrushes but it is often that they are trying to do
too much that it is not designed to do. You might have to check that the needle is smooth etc.

Do not aim for too much detail spraying in the beginning, just try to get used to the idea of spraying,
and getting a finish.
Machine Mart have some airbrushes in their catalogue which are under £ 50.00
HTH
Paul

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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by mick b » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:17 pm

From RM web today.
a Grosmont.jpg.6b22ba638fdf05cb5cea3969a8751718.jpg

Colour is a good match for Railmatch Doncaster Green IMHO

Paul_sterling
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Re: Lambton, Hetton and Joicey Colliery (Kitson) No.29 build

Post by Paul_sterling » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:16 pm

Progress has been slow thanks to colourgate, but as recommended, I've put some matt black onto the smokebox and cab to try and create a break in the colour, and it does look a lot better, but the current colour is highly dependant on the light under which it is being viewed. Happily what I have found is, the colour of the Bachmann V2 in LNER green that I was using for a colourmatch, still stays relatively lighter under the same light, so can be used at the paint shop too.

ImageIMG_20190916_221914 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

ImageIMG_20191017_203223 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

ImageIMG_20191017_203236 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

ImageIMG_20191017_210644 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

ImageIMG_20191017_210656 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr
The rear truck was not fitted at this stage, i'd left it elsewhere.

ImageIMG_20191017_210707 by Paul Sterling, on Flickr

Happily, thanks to the choice of chassis, it runs very nicely. and surprisingly, despite my unique truck pivot, it goes round curves well too, but I will have to spend more time proving it on points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93ielnIkxmw

Paul.

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