Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
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Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
I am looking at fitting sound into my Sentinel-Cammell steam railcar (Nu-cast Partners kit NC119) and Frizinghall Model Railways advise that YouChoos do not have this specific sound but suggest that the sound they have for the 4-wheel LNER Sentinel loco should be 'similar'.
I'd be interested in any comments about this matter before I go ahead and order.
Graeme Leary
New Zealand
I'd be interested in any comments about this matter before I go ahead and order.
Graeme Leary
New Zealand
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Plausible as they had the same broad design, and in many cases may well have been identical engines. There were quite a few railcar variants, so there were probably variations in the engines - cylinder size, stroke, etc.
Some of the engine/boilers were also shared or were very similar to those used in their road vehicles, so that might be another potential source?
Some of the engine/boilers were also shared or were very similar to those used in their road vehicles, so that might be another potential source?
Richard Marsden
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Thanks Richard but supplementary question.
Whilst not the greatest fan of Hornby's TTS (but in the interest of price) would any of this range be 'acceptable' for the general effect of steam in a Sentinel-Cammell railcar? The list I have of TTS shows sound for A3, A4, A1 (Tornado), King and Castle classes so I rather think not but just maybe.........?
Graeme
Whilst not the greatest fan of Hornby's TTS (but in the interest of price) would any of this range be 'acceptable' for the general effect of steam in a Sentinel-Cammell railcar? The list I have of TTS shows sound for A3, A4, A1 (Tornado), King and Castle classes so I rather think not but just maybe.........?
Graeme
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Good morning all
One possible problem will be that the Sentinel Railcar had a six cylinder engine. This coupled with the small wheels would give many more chuffs per metre than a normal loco.
Malcolm
One possible problem will be that the Sentinel Railcar had a six cylinder engine. This coupled with the small wheels would give many more chuffs per metre than a normal loco.
Malcolm
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
I would agree. What you probably want is the high speed but relatively quiet 'chaff-chaff-chaff' that can still be heard at steam fairs when a heavy steam lorry is demonstrated. None of the mighty barking exhaust and relatively slow stroke rate of a conventional direct drive steam loco. There's a little 'chain clank' type mechanism noise on starting, but thereafter the road lorries are relatively quiet and I imagine the rail mechanisms would have been similar.
Unless of course someone has actually heard such and can categorically state different, I have never heard a rail sentinel!
Unless of course someone has actually heard such and can categorically state different, I have never heard a rail sentinel!
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Graeme,
Sorry -- can't comment on the available sound systems. Agree with the others that it isn't going to sound like a regular steam loco though.
Sorry -- can't comment on the available sound systems. Agree with the others that it isn't going to sound like a regular steam loco though.
Richard Marsden
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Has a recording ever been made of the preserved Sentinel on the Middleton Railway in Leeds?Hatfield Shed wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:14 am I would agree. What you probably want is the high speed but relatively quiet 'chaff-chaff-chaff' that can still be heard at steam fairs when a heavy steam lorry is demonstrated. None of the mighty barking exhaust and relatively slow stroke rate of a conventional direct drive steam loco. There's a little 'chain clank' type mechanism noise on starting, but thereafter the road lorries are relatively quiet and I imagine the rail mechanisms would have been similar.
Unless of course someone has actually heard such and can categorically state different, I have never heard a rail sentinel!
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Still only 2 cylinders though...65447 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:19 pmHas a recording ever been made of the preserved Sentinel on the Middleton Railway in Leeds?Hatfield Shed wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:14 am I would agree. What you probably want is the high speed but relatively quiet 'chaff-chaff-chaff' that can still be heard at steam fairs when a heavy steam lorry is demonstrated. None of the mighty barking exhaust and relatively slow stroke rate of a conventional direct drive steam loco. There's a little 'chain clank' type mechanism noise on starting, but thereafter the road lorries are relatively quiet and I imagine the rail mechanisms would have been similar.
Unless of course someone has actually heard such and can categorically state different, I have never heard a rail sentinel!
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Finally looked it up
The early railcars (esp. diagrams 88,89) were 2 cylinders:
https://www.lner.info/locos/Railcar/sentinel.php
Later diagrams were 6 or 12 cylinder. Most significant were diagrams 93,96,97 which were all 6 cylinder.
Most of the railcars were dia 88,89,93,96,97 - the other diagrams were built in smaller, experimental numbers.
Yes the Middleton is 2 cyl - I remember seeing it in pieces 15+ yrs ago
I believe the other survivor (on the Lavender Line? or was for a while) is also 2 cyl.
Which diagram is the kit?
Were the 6 cyl engines used on their road vehicles?
The early railcars (esp. diagrams 88,89) were 2 cylinders:
https://www.lner.info/locos/Railcar/sentinel.php
Later diagrams were 6 or 12 cylinder. Most significant were diagrams 93,96,97 which were all 6 cylinder.
Most of the railcars were dia 88,89,93,96,97 - the other diagrams were built in smaller, experimental numbers.
Yes the Middleton is 2 cyl - I remember seeing it in pieces 15+ yrs ago
I believe the other survivor (on the Lavender Line? or was for a while) is also 2 cyl.
Which diagram is the kit?
Were the 6 cyl engines used on their road vehicles?
Richard Marsden
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Richard,
The diagram is not shown on the box, just 6 CYL 100HO Type H steam railcar.
Is that any help with identifying suitable steam sounds? (A fellow modeller here - ex Robin Hood's Bay so should know what he's talking about even if his comment is a bit 'tongue in cheek' - suggests going to a traction engine steam rally, record the sounds and get them transferred to a sound decoder. All very well for him, he's a technical bod).
Many thanks.
Graeme
The diagram is not shown on the box, just 6 CYL 100HO Type H steam railcar.
Is that any help with identifying suitable steam sounds? (A fellow modeller here - ex Robin Hood's Bay so should know what he's talking about even if his comment is a bit 'tongue in cheek' - suggests going to a traction engine steam rally, record the sounds and get them transferred to a sound decoder. All very well for him, he's a technical bod).
Many thanks.
Graeme
Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
At the risk of being out-of-my-depth with this, the six-cylinder 100 Horsepower model will be of Carriage diagram 96 or 97, the most common types and, I think, those of the original Nu-Cast model.
I will contact a certain Mr Makepeace, via his son, who is also interested in modelling one of these, because he remembers them! Makepeace senior is also knowledgeable about digital chips of various kinds. Is there nothing equivalent in the US market? I did say I am ignorant on this matter!
John
I will contact a certain Mr Makepeace, via his son, who is also interested in modelling one of these, because he remembers them! Makepeace senior is also knowledgeable about digital chips of various kinds. Is there nothing equivalent in the US market? I did say I am ignorant on this matter!
John
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Thanks John for your 'lateral' thinking. If Mr Makepeace Senior is also looking at doing this I'd be very happy to hear his thoughts - sounds as though he also has the knowledge on the trickier aspect of chips and the like (including maybe 'correct' sound).
Haven't looked into the US market at all - hadn't imagined a steam railcar chugging across the prairies but why not?
Graeme
Haven't looked into the US market at all - hadn't imagined a steam railcar chugging across the prairies but why not?
Graeme
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
Don't know. Sentinel definitely used at least four cylinders on the road going steam wagons, because I got underneath a large one(with the owners permission and guidance) at a steam fair some years ago. (There's now a large eight wheel dual steer Sentinel - which might have yet more cylinders - at Beamish open air museum, on my 'to see' list, among much else at Beamish. This design was the apogee of road going steamers, and survived quite well, though not in its original transport role: the onboard heat source made them readily adaptable for tar laying operations.)
Whatever, the significant aspect of the Sentinel engine was the geared drive to the propelling wheels. I would suggest that knowing the exhausts per driving wheel revolution in each gear is most critical to 'getting it right'.
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Re: Sound - Sentinel Steam Railcar
I haven't investigated US sound chips, but the only "Sentinel railcar" like things I can think of are the Doodlebugs as operated by Santa Fe amongst others. I'm not up on the types (and there's an operating one down the road in Frisco,TX at the "Museum of the American Railroad", formally the Dallas Age of Steam at the fairgrounds) , but I understood they were all internal combustion.
I just thought of things like Shays but they would have too slow a stroke, even if they were gear driven with multiple small cylinders (don't think any had 6 though - would have been a beast though!).
I just thought of things like Shays but they would have too slow a stroke, even if they were gear driven with multiple small cylinders (don't think any had 6 though - would have been a beast though!).
Richard Marsden
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