On my workbench - it's a Sam Fay

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45609
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On my workbench - it's a Sam Fay

Post by 45609 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:06 pm

Hello gents,

It has been a long time since I did any serious modelling but I finally got started on my next project this weekend. I am being disciplined and doing the tender first so I'm not going to give the game away just yet. You'll have to guess what loco is going to pull it.

Tender progress pictures attached. I am using an old Perseverance kit as the basis but to be honest I wish I hadn't. Parts don't fit together properly or are dimensionally wrong. The flared side were just impossible to form so I made some from thin phosphor bronze strip. Upper side plates and the rear coal plate were also made from scratch.

It took most of the weekend to get this far.....more anon.

Morgan
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rob
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Post by rob » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:04 pm

Hi Morgan-one of Mr Robinson's lovely locos-I'll go for a B somewhere between 1 and 9 :P ! What do I win if I'm close!...even if Ihave the benefit of your hint on my workbench thread......
I empathise over the flares-actually one of my favourite jobs because of the satisfaction when it works out but utterly nervewracking until then! Look forward to what emerges!
Cheers,
Rob

Atso
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Post by Atso » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:21 am

Well dispite the problems you've experienced I think that tender is looking really good. Can't wait to see the loco that it'll be attached to!
Steve

45609
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Post by 45609 » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:31 pm

Evening all....

Been a while since I posted on this project. I have been distracted by other modelling tasks and a necessary evil (a.k.a. work). Anyway, the tender is just about complete up to the pre-painting stage. It is going to get full GCR passenger livery so the axle boxes are being left off until the tender frames have been lined. The tender frames are also removable from the superstructure to further help with accurate lining.

Construction has followed a similar vein to the previous posting. In a word, difficult. The biggest gripe was the tender subframe. Axle hole horizontal centreline didn't match the outside frames by more than a millimeter. If built without modification the tender would have riden a scale 3 to 4 inches too high. The photos should show that I have used the outside frames to hold the wheels which run on waisted pinpoint bearings. The subframe has been used, with modification or should that be butchery, as a device for hanging the brake gear from.

Cheers for now....Morgan
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wehf100
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Post by wehf100 » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:30 pm

this looks interesting.I'm a big GCR fan, but haven't got the guts to try a full GC green livery- good luck with that! It has a tender scoop so I will hedge my bets, exploit the GCR's class numbering system and say it is most likely something that begins with class '8'!!

look forward to seeing her come together, if you need some pics of your loco I may be able to help, give us a shout,

Will

45609
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On my workbench - it's a Sam Fay

Post by 45609 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:38 pm

I was hoping to wait until I had some pictures to show you but events, the frustrating experience with the tender, have made me decide to tell you what I'm building. It's a Jaylines kit of the "Sam Fay" 4-6-0.

IIRC I think Rob and JW have the same kit and I thought it might be useful to share the findings of my comparison of the etches to the Isinglass drawing of the same loco. The late John Edgson was very rarely wrong with his drawings and I have a lot of faith in the accuracy of it. So far here is a list of the problems I've found with the kit just by inspection.

1. Bogie wheelbase is a scale foot (4mm) too short. Should be 6'6" but I measure it at 6'2". The frame cut out for bogie wheel clearance is wrong by the same amount but the datum for the error appears to be the longitudinal centre of the bogie. In other words the relationship of the bogie wheels in relation to the buffer beam and running plate footsteps will look all wrong. The only way to correct this will be to make new front frames and bogie side frames.

2. The front frame extensions above the running plate are the wrong profile which would probably be acceptable if they weren't 1mm short in height. Looks like these will have to be re-made as well. Good job I have a rivetting press!

3. Cabsides are too short in length by 1.5mm. Error appears to be at the front edge and difficult to correct with the exisitng parts because of the complex curvature at the front where it meets the running plate. More new parts to be made.

4. The cab roof is also too short but not by the same amount as the cabsides. It's half way between correct length and the original cabsides.

5. Bearing holes in the frames are oversize. The O/D of the 1/8" top hat bearing around 0.5mm smaller than the hole. Accurate positioning will be impossible without soldering in some new backing plates. The alternative is to cut out the hornblocks and compensate. This will most likely be the easier option.

So there you go. Don't say I didn't warn you..... :lol: !!!!! No doubt there will be more problems along the way and I will post info as I find them. Wish me luck gents this could be a long job......

Morgan.

mick b
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Post by mick b » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:07 pm

Glad I model ex NER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mick

Bill Bedford
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Re: On my workbench - it's a Sam Fay

Post by Bill Bedford » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:50 pm

mlgilbert30 wrote:I was hoping to wait until I had some pictures to show you but events, the frustrating experience with the tender, have made me decide to tell you what I'm building. It's a Jaylines kit of the "Sam Fay" 4-6-0.
Can't remember whether it was the Sam Fay or another GC kit, but one of the kits that Rod Neep did for Jaylines only sold in single figures (3 is the one I heard). Reading the problems with the kit I can understand why Rod felt it expedient to find himself a proper job shortly after doing these kits.

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Post by jwealleans » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:42 pm

Is this the kit Pat Ryan was latterly selling? The brand name escapes me and it's not to hand.

45609
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Post by 45609 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:27 pm

Yes that is the one. Pat Ryan was selling it under his "Modelex" brand name and that is where I bought it from about a year or so ago. I seem to remember you posting a pic of the etches for me to have a look at before I parted with the cash.

wehf100
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Post by wehf100 » Thu May 01, 2008 9:55 am

sounds like the model is as problematic as the real thing was! Good luck!!

re the bogie wheelbase- do you think just replacing it with a comet 6'6'' wheelbase bogie kit would be most simple, even if not 100% re th springing arrangements? I imagine something like the wheelbase would be more noticeable than the differing pattern of rivets the kit/comet parts would have.

I have a nice picture of Sam Fay in 1913 showing an indicator testing 'shed' built around the smokebox footplate, completely obscuring view of the forward extension of the frames- and subsequently th dimensional problem in the kit!!

I notice all my pics show 'Sir Sam' with a copper clad chimney piece. Did she keep this throughout her GCR chimney'd life, or was it just something put on for her (his?!) potential exhibition at a show in Belgium (never attended) and therefore removed afterwards?

Will

45609
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Post by 45609 » Mon May 05, 2008 9:22 pm

Hi Will,

Yes the Comet bogie is an option I guess but as I will have some to make some new cab sides and front frames (above and below the running plate) I can fret them all out of the same sheets of brass in one session. The extra time involved will not be that much. It is just irritating that the parts were so wrong in the first place.

Made some more progress this weekend. The basic frames have been erected (minus the front ends that have been hacked off and binned). Decided to fit the gearbox to the leading axle, hence it is fixed and the middle and trailing axles have had hornblocks fitted. A compensating pivot made from 10BA studding has been placed midway between the axles with a nut midway on the studding acting as the rotating bearing. I will set up the beam later on when wheels are fitted. I used the new fold up, clip together hornblocks from High Level models. Very impressed with these. Only took a couple of minutes to fold each one up and get the bearings sliding smoothly in the slots. See the link below for more details.

http://uk.geocities.com/chris.gibbon123 ... inpage.htm

The running plate has not been so easy. Bending something as curvy as this was always going to be a challenge but as I was forming the forward curve that goes up and over the driving wheels I realised the "step in" for the narrowing of the running plate was in the wrong place. Reference to the Isinglass drawing confirmed the kit to be in the wrong again. So I flattened everything out and started again. With the "step in" at the right place and the curves over the driving wheels bent to match the valances I ended up with the inevitable. At the front the running plate was too short and the valances too long. Vice-versa at the back. To get everything the correct length took some very careful work with the fret saw, files and soldering iron. Despite this I think the result has come out well. Finished off the session by making up the rear footsteps.

Gearbox and motor should be turning up in the post this week so more anon.....

Cheers.....Morgan
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rob
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Location: Cork Ireland

Post by rob » Mon May 05, 2008 11:11 pm

Hello Morgan,
While it may be proving more difficult than intended the shots so far show a magnificent job unfolding-the crispness and accuracy of that footplate assembly is awesome!I'm particularly taken by the last shot showing the rear steps.I'm also aware of how delicate a job it is with the slim valance etc and yours is perfectly square!You may not entirely do so but I'm certainly going to enjoy this build!
You are right by the way,I do have a Sam Fay kit in stock-I wonder which of us has the shorter straw!
Image
It almost runs by the way but the wheels and motor are destined for my black museum! What are you planning to use there? I don't know if there is a 27mm in the Romford/Markits range at present,and will it be a high level box?I'll be watching with interest though this S/H kit is way down my to do list!
All the best with the build!
Rob

Atso
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Post by Atso » Tue May 06, 2008 8:23 am

Morgan,

Problems aside with the build - this looks great! I've never tackled an etched kit before and am always in awe of those who can build such fantastic models from them!

Having looked through some books, I've found pictures that indicate that the 'Sam Fay' class ran over the GNR route in LNER days so I think I can justify one! Now how to build one.... where's that old B12...

Anyway good luck with this, I think it's going to be a cracker once done!
Steve

45609
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Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:51 pm

Post by 45609 » Tue May 06, 2008 9:28 am

Hi Rob, Steve,

Thanks for the encouragement and kind words. I think I picked up the short straw Rob. I bet the K's kit will be far easier to put together. Having said that I prefer to work in brass as I can't stand the mess that filing whitemetal makes.

On the subject of motors and gearboxes. The Sam Fay I'm building is going to get a Mashima MH1624 driving the leading axle. I'm going to use a Highlevel Roadrunner + (40:1) and a drive stretcher to get the motor up above the driving wheels and into the rear of the boiler. I'm using Alan Gibson wheels (code 4878E). These are actually 6'6" (should be 6'9") but I have discovered that with OO gauge flanges the full size wheels would rub against the brake pivot between the leading and middle drivers.

cheers.....Morgan

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