Headlamp/taillamp codes

This forum is for the discussion of railway modelling of the LNER and its constituent companies.

Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard

Post Reply
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Headlamp/taillamp codes

Post by Graeme Leary »

Earlier this year I had some info from d17JAS and Humourist concerning lamp codes on expresses but now trying to clarify what would have been carried by locos working petrol/oil trains (plus colour details - ie were the tail lamps painted red during the Grouping era?)

I have a printout (from what source I do not know) which shows just about every type of train (passenger and goods) but none specify petrol/oil. Express Goods are shown as No 1 and No 2, and Goods (non-express I assume) have listed Classes A, B, C, D but the accompanying descriptions do not mention any sort of flammable products. Due to potential danger I assume this would need to be displayed to differentiate from other types of goods trains.

Another printout from LNEEG shows classes ROYAL and then Classes 1 to 9 and SHUNTING.
Class 8 is described as 'Through Mineral or Empty Wagons' which (long stretch) to me is the closest to oil although I do associate Mineral as usually coal (but could be wrong).

I do understand whether the trains were fitted or not may have had a bearing on this.

Any help to get the correct lamp codes for a 12 wagon all oil goods train much appreciated (plus confirmation that a 'barrier' wagon behind the loco was normal practice) as well as tail lamp colours during the grouping.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 4208
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am

Re: Headlamp/taillamp codes

Post by jwealleans »

Tank wagons were just goods in a liquid form and moved in whatever train was appropriate to the speed they could travel at. Most tank wagons were unfitted and so would go into a train travelling under those lamps - max speed 35 mph, examination every 40 miles or whatever the regulations were at the time.

As wagons (and bearings) improved, tank wagons developed a system of stars to indicate that they could travel in faster trains - one star, then two. I don't recall the details other than it started in 1913.

Aside from the class of train they were dispatched in, tank wagons broadly fell into two types - Class A, for hazardous/explosive cargo and Class B for less volatile substances. At the time of the LNER Class A wagons were painted buff with a red horizontal stripe and Class B were (I think) black. There were regulations about where they were to be marshalled, barrier wagons and the like.

A chap called Tourret has written the most informative works on tank wagons and that's probably your best source for detailed information.
Danby Wiske
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:09 am

Re: Headlamp/taillamp codes

Post by Danby Wiske »

In addition to JW's informative reply, it's worth pointing out that the sort of train you are proposing didn't really exist until WW2. Petrol and oil tank wagons would have travelled singly or in small cuts as part of mixed freight trains - the idea of 'block' freight began when the railways were placed under central control in 1939.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Headlamp/taillamp codes

Post by Graeme Leary »

Many thanks Jonathon and Danby Wiske.

From your comments (and to cover a wider period of LNER pre-war), perhaps my tankers should become part of a 'mixed' goods as either Class A, Class B, Class C or Class D. (In actual running they will probably be run without stopping on the main double track and pass through the stations - where the tracks are quadripled - without stopping. Does this narrow down the Class of train a little or would it become an Express Goods, either Number 1, 2 or 3?

And 'goods' v 'freight' - is there an accepted (normal) British term. For some reason I always associate 'freight' with USA.

Graeme
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Headlamp/taillamp codes

Post by Graeme Leary »

Have done some hunting around trying to find photos of the type of mixed train you mention Danby Wiske - ie the odd tanker being part of a wider general/mixed goods (pre 1939 that is).

The only photo I've managed to locate is from 1928, in Brian Stephenson's LNER Album Vol 1 (no page or photo number but about 3/4 way through as part of a train being worked by GNR O1 4374) and even that single tanker looks quite low in overall height. Out of sheer curiosity (and for a fairly accurate replication) I'd be interested in seeing any other examples or leads to this type of train with single or the odd multiples of tankers in the formation.

(No problems getting passenger train photos but goods, another story!)

Graeme
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 4208
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am

Re: Headlamp/taillamp codes

Post by jwealleans »

Graeme,

Invest in a copy of Geoff Goslin's Goods Traffic of the LNER. Looking through said book, tank wagons seem to have been relatively rare in the mixed goods trains he shows. I've found a couple of instances where there are more than one but in the main they are very scarce.

Of course you only need invent a flow or model an industry which needs them and you can have them coming out of your ears, but it' sup to you.

As an aside, if you look at the 'Britain from the Air' website and pick a site where there was a concentration of goods traffic (Middlesbrough and the Docks are good, Sheffield Wicker if you want an inner-city location and there must be hundreds more) then you can see the sort of random selection of wagons appropriate for your own model.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Headlamp/taillamp codes

Post by Graeme Leary »

Many thanks Jonathon.

Yes, another of my Quixotic 'tilting at windmills' challenges and will certainly search for the Geoff Goslin book you quote - pity this didn't come up 3 weeks ago when I was still in the UK.

And, now where's my Britain from the Air? - think it might have been passed it on to a charity shop in a big clean out a few months back but will go and look.

Graeme
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Headlamp/taillamp codes

Post by Graeme Leary »

Jonathon,

Got it - Geoff Golsin's book (from Barter Books in Alnwick where I was 3 weeks ago -damn!) Should be winging its way to me on Monday.

Many thanks for directing me to it.

Graeme
Post Reply