D20 questions

[NCL]

Hi All,

I am building a fictitious layout based on the Wells-next-the-Sea track plan, but with GCR architecture, the year is 1938. I am building a D20, but am struggling to work out from my research a few things. The model has the small smokebox door, and high frames between the smokebox and front splashers. The boiler has four wash out plugs, two each side, and the windows are relatively low on the cab sides

I know many engines of this type were based in further north, but could someone help me with:
- the LNER number a loco that may have operated this far south (if not, no problem, but the number informs some of the questions below)
- Should the livery be lined apple green, or lined black or plain black?
- Should the safety valves be covered by the brass cover, round base, or be fixed straight to the boiler.
- Should the Westinghouse pump be fitted to the top of the RHS Splasher, just in front of the cab?
- What side were they driven from?

Apologies for all the questions, but i getting a bit stuck on the research side of things.

Many thanks in advance,

Kind regards.
Nick

[drmditch]

Good Afternoon.
Firstly, if you are looking for material on LNER Locomotives, this forum has excellent information pages - Home/Locomotives.
The D20 class is discussed ....here....

Secondly, the D20 is an ex-NER class, and the features you mention, such as the smokebox door and the cab side-windows are NER features as built.
Have you been able to access any of the standard books - RCTS history, Yeadon or any of the late Ken Hoole's books?

I haven't checked in detail but there were 60 of this class, all built at Gateshead between 1899 and 1907. I think that most of them were allocated to North Eastern Area sheds, and I don't think any were ever allocated south of Selby.
By 1938 most (if not all) would have been re-painted plain un-lined black.
Safety valve covers varied over time but by 1938 most engines would probably not have had the lovely brass trumpets.
The Westinghouse pump was actually inside the continuous splasher between the wheels, with only the top part protruding.
They were all built as RH drive, but the four which were substantially rebuilt from 1936 onwards were converted to LH drive.

In short - I think a D20 is unlikely to have run in Norfolk, or even in GCR/GN territory in Lincolnshire. Now - if you move your location to the Yorkshire coast then you have more options!

[NCL]

Hi drm

Many thanks for your reply. It's really helpful.

I glad it won't have to be lined! I have access to Yeadon's but have struggled to find a photo of a Loco taken in 1938 to copy, hence the questions.

Kind regards

Nick.

[JASd17]

The D20s were never allocated south of Selby or Hull, so essentially North Eastern Area locos.

In 1938 the livery would have been lined black. The red lining was discarded from 1941.

Safety valves can be tricky, a good dated photo of the loco you wish to build is the best evidence.

John

[Hatfield Shed]

...am building a fictitious layout based on the Wells-next-the-Sea track plan, but with GCR architecture...

So it doesn't matter where D20s may have operated in 1938. (I would be inclined to black lined, and allocation to a shed where a high standard of cleaning was still possible. There's a picture of D20 1207 gleaming in just this livery at Pickering, dated August 1938, so no fiction required in this respect. And such a handsome loco deserves to be so seen, doncha think?)

[NCL]

Many thanks Hatfield. Is there any way you could e-mail or PM the photo to me please?

[JASd17]

The original post asked for loco numbers that may have operated that far south.

None did. There was a York Shed working in the 1930s which operated a train as far as Lincoln. The RCTS book states this was often a D20 working. The train in 1938 was a through Buffet Car train to Lowestoft with a carriage for Ispwich.

The D20s would also have been seen on excursions to London, particularly in the 1920s.

John

[Hatfield Shed]

Many thanks Hatfield. Is there any way you could e-mail or PM the photo to me please?

Not possible, it's reproduced in 'The Big Four in Colour' from a private collection. (A book that is well worth purchasing.)

[JASd17]

Many thanks Hatfield. Is there any way you could e-mail or PM the photo to me please?

Not possible, it's reproduced in 'The Big Four in Colour' from a private collection. (A book that is well worth purchasing.)

Very Kind Hatfield Shed, I was one of the authors of that volume and did most of the LNER Section, the others being essentially Midland men. The individual photos may have copyright issues as HS says.

It should be possible to work out which author, as the others are, sadly, no longer with us.

John

[NCL]

Ok great, many thanks.

I have that book so will have a look.

Regards,
Nick

[Hatfield Shed]

... I was one of the authors of that volume ( 'The Big Four in Colour' ) and did most of the LNER Section, the others being essentially Midland men...

[tangent]
John,

It's a treasure, especially for someone too young to have seen the LNER or any other of the Big Four, but only their distinctive remaining features during subsequent BR operation.
[/tangent]