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Re: New Bachmann V2 early prototype

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:22 pm
by Horsetan
mick b wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:28 pm....At nearly £200 !! :shock: :shock: sadly it will have to be exceptional ,for me to buy one.
Might be cheaper to build a Finney kit.... :lol:

Re: New Bachmann V2 early prototype

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:37 pm
by Pebbles
From photos, to me the raised centre section of the running plate appears to be on the high side.

Re: New Bachmann V2 early prototype

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:08 am
by nzpaul
Hi All
I'm sat at home feeling under the weather (not coronavirus...) and I'm bored, so I was reading through some of the Wright Writes pages on RMW and came across some updated V2 photos. I'm surprised that we haven't had much discussion on this considering the developments, it's not generated much interest anywhere from what I can see. So with idle hands at play I thought this might be appropriate, or inappropriate depending on your viewpoint. Hopefully the intention is obvious.. :?:
What Is That_1.jpg
It appears they have followed H's lead and having created a lovely looking fixed rear frame, used a flangeless wheel set to deal with the obligatory handling of 18" radius curves, unless I've missed an April fools joke. While it wont please a few, I don't know what else they could do. Having tried to solve the same issue on my Raven A2 and 24" radius curves I've come to the conclusion that the flangeless wheel set is a perfectly acceptable compromise.
Back to the couch now I suppose, or I could find something constructive to do... :?

Paul

Re: New Bachmann V2 early prototype

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:50 pm
by Hatfield Shed
Hornby have had this 'solution' implemented without much protest for over 15 years. There are much better methods, but they do cost. I fix it by DIY, easy enough for a 30" minimum radius layout.

Re: New Bachmann V2 early prototype

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:36 pm
by nzpaul
Hatfield Shed wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:50 pm Hornby have had this 'solution' implemented without much protest for over 15 years. There are much better methods, but they do cost. I fix it by DIY, easy enough for a 30" minimum radius layout.
Agreed,better methods are out there, Roco BR23 is the best example I can think of, where the whole loco chassis is free to swivel about under the boiler and the rear truck rotates on a pivot, allowing the loco to negotiate 15" curves quite happily and not look stupid (ignoring what 15" curves look like) . The Roco is tender driven (I think the latest ones have a driveshaft to the loco as well?) but something like the drives used in Rivarossi articulateds could have the motor back in the loco I'm sure.
Marklin 2-10-0s have their chassis articulated between the 3rd and 4th axles and again handle 15" curves without bother.
Both examples work perfectly and still maintain a decent scale appearance but neither are cheap, I think closer to £400 to buy those kind of things new. I can only imagine what the price for a really cleverly engineered V2 would be.
On my older Bachmann V2's I've made up replacement fixed frames using plastic sheet and Comet axle boxes, the axle is retained in the inner part of the old waggly truck, they are happy enough down to 22" radius curves but 18" is a no go. There's the rub I guess, if minimum radius were set at 24" then their current A1/A2 rear axle arrangement would work ok with a properly detailed frame and axle box, but to do so would alienate a good chunk of the market.

Paul

Re: New Bachmann V2 early prototype

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:58 pm
by Hatfield Shed
If the truck wheelset is in a normally pivotted and sprung inside frame truck, and the cartazzi frames as separate pieces one each side hinged on a light spring; a bump stop on the truck frame can push out the frame on the inside of the curve to get it round R2. The V2 is relatively short, there wouldn't be that much movement of the external frame. (I have done this mod on a Hornby A4 for a friend with a set track layout, very simply using the cartazzi truck plastic moulding's elasticity as the spring, and it has performed like this near ten years now.)

Re: New Bachmann V2 early prototype

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:27 am
by Horsetan
nzpaul wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:36 pm...oco BR23 is the best example I can think of, where the whole loco chassis is free to swivel about under the boiler and the rear truck rotates on a pivot, allowing the loco to negotiate 15" curves...
Similar methods used on the Roco Br.41 and Gutzold Br.19.

Almost all of the German HO (whether RTR or kit) steam engines seem to be tender-driven, mainly because a motor and drivetrain in the loco would block out some of that very visible daylight between the bar frames. It may not be the best solution (traction tyres seem to be a must), but the RTR producers have run with it for about forty years and it doesn't seem to harm their sales or the overall performance of the models.

Re: New Bachmann V2 early prototype

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:56 pm
by Hatfield Shed
nzpaul wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:36 pm ...There's the rub I guess, if minimum radius were set at 24" then their current A1/A2 rear axle arrangement would work ok with a properly detailed frame and axle box, but to do so would alienate a good chunk of the market.
It need not. Fix the slide in place, fit a flangeless wheelset, and it is R2 capable. I await with interest what the V2 internals will be. Bachmann's 'slide' is ideal for such a mod, if the designer has given it some thought...

With a flanged wheelset in the box, those that fit it can release the slide (remove a locking screw perhaps) and we are all done!

From long term mucking about in OO, I believe the minimum radius for no visual compromises to be 30" centreline radius. That's to accomodate the largest UK steam and D+E designs. A V2 being a little more compact would manage 24" radius.