Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

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Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by Graeme Leary »

I have a Bachmann 44-045 TPO Apparatus and interested to know if:-

(a) This was the same (or similar) design as used by LNER during the Grouping.

(b) They would have been on both the up and down tracks (and if so, opposite each other or spaced further apart?)

(c) They would have not normally been situated at a station stop (where staff could load and unload mail bags) and more out in open countryside, but maybe close to a smaller town or village where an express would not stop.

I'm also interested in any members may have modelled a TPO and if so by what means. Hornby had an older model R413, described as 'LMS' but has this been adapted to LNER, with possible tweaks to the underframe detail and obvious livery and font changes?

Many thanks.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand
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nzpaul
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 610
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by nzpaul »

Hi Graeme

Have a look in your Carriage drawings book, the TPOs are in there. The Hornby TPO is designed primarily to function and pick stuff up and put it down somewhere else, so has things hanging out of the floor that are undesirable if your after a "model". I'm sure it would need some major surgery to look appropriate for LNER use, not that I'm suggesting you shouldn't have a go. As for how to use them properly, I have no idea. I think there was a write-up about them in the LNER Backtrack bookazine. I'll have a look later and see if it's of any potential use.

Cheers
Paul
giner
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Location: Alberta - ex. Stevenage

Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by giner »

As regards the siting of pick-up locations, I recall the apparatus on the down fast about a mile or so south of Hitchin station on the ECML, just south of the point where the line crosses the bridge over Wymondley Road, so out in the country, so to speak. I'm thinking back over 60 years here, and I'm pretty sure there wasn't any apparatus on the 'up' side. In fact, I can't recall any anywhere in the vicinity
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by Graeme Leary »

Many thanks 'giner' and Paul (and Paul, think I'll content myself with just the apparatus and leave attempting the TPO itself).

However the Bachmann 44-045 product consist of 3 items (and apologies for not having the skills - yet - to post photos):-
(1) A small hut with a black and gold check sign
(2) The double 'swing' apparatus ie with 2 arms each holding a mail bag
(3) A 'grill' type tray (which looks designed to fold down) and a 1/2 circle mesh between 2 upright posts.

I'm interested in the order these would have been placed on the side of the tracks and assume they would have been close enough for the pickup or drop off of the bags, perhaps close up against the sleepers.

Also presume the hut would have been the first of the 3 components (with the check sign facing down the track to advise the driver he was approaching the drop/pick up); then the 'swing' with the bags and then the grill/net (with the mesh enclosure) for dropping bags. But possibly the last 2 components were reversed

Any help gratefully received.

Graeme Leary
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by Graeme Leary »

Think I have found the answer to my (very) recent query.

On https://www.postalmuseum.org/blog/bags-tracks-tragedy/ there is an old black and white photo showing more or less the arrangement related to the apparatus. It doesn't show the black and gold check sign but, as assumed, is probably behind the hut facing towards the direction the train is coming from. The 'net' is quite different from the Bachmann product but is next of the 3 and then the 'swing' holding the bag/s.

Assuming this is similar to LNER's apparatus and system this is how I'll arrange mine, however any further comments very welcome.

Graeme Leary
Mercator II
GCR O4 2-8-0 'ROD'
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by Mercator II »

GCR TPO lineside
GCR TPO lineside
Hi Graeme

GCR preserved line has an operating TPO equipment, and regularly do demos on their galas, located down at Quorn & Woodhouse station

Here are a couple of images

Plenty of vids on YouTube too

They have, from memory, both BR MK1 & LNER TPO sets

HTH
Attachments
GPO TPO lineside 2
GPO TPO lineside 2
oOo

Brian

Garage Hobbit!!
Modelling in 00 on my heritage line, very GCR inspired
Hatfield Shed
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:34 pm

Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by Hatfield Shed »

I know a chap who was a Royal Mail man on the postal trains from the 1950s, mostly Euston-Crewe and return, but did stints as sorter elsewhere including ER as staffing needs dictated, and from his point of view it was the same job on all: but he only 'knew the road' for Euston-Crewe which was essential for hanging out the kit. All memory, over the bridge, so many rail joints, swing the bags out and/or deploy the net: and then stand well clear until the 'incoming' stops moving. The winter of 62/63 was grim. THE COLD when the doors opeaned at speed. And the sounds were different and even experienced crew got it wrong that winter on occasion; furthermore the frozen solid exterior of a mailbag is not funny for anyone having to deal with it!
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by Graeme Leary »

Thanks Mercator II and Hatfield Shed. Added your comments to my assumptions and now have what I think is a reasonable approximation of the situation as it may have been (but in my case the postal workers will go up an embankment to the apparatus rather than down as on the film clip - I'm sure that must have been the norm in a few cases).

Graeme Leary
JASd17
LNER A3 4-6-2
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Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by JASd17 »

I have a 1947 version of Mile by Mile on the LNER by S N Pike.

It states there are 20 line-side mail bag pick-up locations between London and Edinburgh, including several at Huntingdon North. Unfortunately, I can only count 17 on the maps. There is an enormous gap between New England, Peterborough and Pegswood in Northumberland. Going North the first is near MP28 Stevenage and the last at Portobello on the outskirts of Edinburgh. All are on the Down side.

John
4812
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
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Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by 4812 »

A little more information: the 1947 LNER General Appendix says that the black and yellow plate was to be "at ground level about 20 yards on the approach side of the standard" - which seems not very far. When the standard was swung into position for pick-up after dark the plate would be illuminated, and a rectangular white light would be exhibited from the arm, both by the Post Office. The NE Area Sectional Appendix says that in 1947 Mail Bag Apparatus was sited at Durham, Pegswood, Alnmouth, and Tweedmouth, all on the Down side, and 'Mile by Mile' shows the last three but not Durham.

In NER days there had been as many as 17 sites between York and Berwick but there seems to have been a cull in the 1920s. The Postal Museum photo shows, I think, the site at Thirsk - the number on the Hall signal would be able to confirm this.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Lineside Travelling Post Office apparatus

Post by Graeme Leary »

Thanks John, you mentioned 'Mile by Mile' on Friday (Saturday here) and it does seem odd that there are so few over such a long distance. But I think you suggested this distance without apparatus was probably covered by actual stations where mail could be loaded/unloaded. Must spend some time studying my copy.

Also thanks 4812 - this sort of historical info is really interesting so very much appreciated however I now feel I will have to place the black and yellow 'plate' (in my case a painted board) at the correct scale distance from the apparatus. The Bachmann kit has this board with a small hut but I now realise the plate/board could have well been totally separate from the hut. I had assumed that on the photo posted showing 'A Travelling Post Office approaches a Bag Exchange Apparatus' the plate/board could have been just behind the hut but maybe it was the specified 20 yards before the hut (and maybe obscured by the signal post in the shot).

Graeme
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