4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

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NZRedBaron
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by NZRedBaron »

I'm looking into this with great interest now; I'm modelling a layout that's very loosely based on ex-GER metals, so something like those coaches would be a neat kitbash to do, as a stopping passenger rake for my J15 to haul.
S.A.C. Martin

Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

Hatton's LNER and GNR liveried 4 and 6 wheel coaches have broken cover with their livery samples:

Hattons GNR coaches

Image

Hattons LNER Coaches

Image

I can't put my finger on it, but the colours don't look right to me on the GNR coaches. They are all, however, very nicely finished. I do like the look of them.

Thoughts?
mick b
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by mick b »

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=882

GNR version looks like its been Tangoed !!

LNER versions quite good.
65447
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by 65447 »

Teak did have that colouration when new, but it would gradually darken over time. But there again it is not a Howlden profile roof...
S.A.C. Martin

Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

If you look at a preserved GNR coach, these are the sort of colours they have:

Image

The colours actually not that far off I think, it just needs a bit more brown in it, perhaps? And maybe a bit more obvious graining? I rather think the issue is the lack of graining visible. A bit darker, a bit more visible, and they're practically there.

Roof profile is totally wrong, but to be expected given the desire to create "generic" vehicles.
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NZRedBaron
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by NZRedBaron »

Well, Hattons did say in the news release that the painting samples of the GNR coaches had a painting error on the ends; the paint application missed a bit just below the roof arch.
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Dave
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by Dave »

The colour of the teak is the least of the problems, it looks about as GNR as a beef burger is to a steak. Why did they bother.
john coffin
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by john coffin »

I'm with Dave,
GNR carriages have a distinctive roof pattern and more importantly the lower beading.
These things have no greater connection to the GNR than the fact that if as has been
said they are based on a Stoudley design, he at least once worked for the GNR.
The roof profile is a complete joke, and not even the early 4 wheelers of the GNr
have that profile.
THEY ARE JUST WRONG.

Paul
S.A.C. Martin

Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

The problem is that these - are - generic vehicles. We all know they're wrong - they're not being sold as being "right" for the GNR, only that they are available in that livery.

The options are - kit build, or nothing, where GNR four and six wheelers are concerned. If you want something fully accurate, you need to buy Mike Trice's excellent 3D printed kits, or the Diagram 3D kits that were available a few years back, or check the GNR website for suppliers of kits.

If we all lobbied for less generic vehicles - full on RTR GNR coaches with the correct rooflines - then we would probably get that.

As it stands, nobody has done that.

I'm not suggesting these are accurate. I'm suggesting a better finish could be applied to these coaches to make them look more GNR like.

From my POV, I would love to have the time, money and funds to kit build a whole load of them, but the Hattons/Hornby coaches are 30 quid each or thereabouts, better finished than I could do, and have working lights if you're bothered about that sort of thing. If the price is attractive and you can stand the inaccurate roofs, then you go for it. If not, then you kit build.

For me, I went off and did some modelling on a few of the Hornby coaches and I am much happier with them than I was expecting, in spite of the roofline being clearly wrong. So my compromise is still "wrong" - but it's more acceptable to me.

Other views are available, other red lines are acceptable.
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manna
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

Look nothing like a GN coach, so what do they resemble, GER, GCR, NB, or NER ???

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
exile
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by exile »

Closest match seems to be Stroudly LBSCR but even there they are not right.
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notascoobie
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by notascoobie »

It doesn't matter whether the teak finish is good or not. The "GNR" carriages don't look anything like GNR carriages. You might as well put GNR transfers on a GWR Castle and sell it as a Stirling Single!

End of rant..

Take care.

Vernon
mick b
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by mick b »

Comments re the GNR version here. Looks much better than the Hornby effort.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... nt-4403238
john coffin
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by john coffin »

I'm fascinated, I have seen on this very forum, many members complaining about the chimney height of a pre production
model locomotive, with no scale to which to compare it, and yet they will accept any old tat to run behind the loco.

Indeed many spend a bunch of money converting RTR stuff, and then will run trains that bear no reference to
the prototype.

If we allow Hornby or Hattons to think that they can get away with it, then no one is going to listen to
complaints about things not be prototypical. I have in my time photographed a number of preserved
coaches, and none in North or South of England have that kind of roof profile.

Paul
mick b
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Re: 4 and 6 Wheeled Coaches

Post by mick b »

john coffin wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:10 am I'm fascinated, I have seen on this very forum, many members complaining about the chimney height of a pre production
model locomotive, with no scale to which to compare it, and yet they will accept any old tat to run behind the loco.

Indeed many spend a bunch of money converting RTR stuff, and then will run trains that bear no reference to
the prototype.

If we allow Hornby or Hattons to think that they can get away with it, then no one is going to listen to
complaints about things not be prototypical. I have in my time photographed a number of preserved
coaches, and none in North or South of England have that kind of roof profile.

Paul
One big problem is there are no viable alternatives ??.
Is there the demand for accurate versions of every Companies versions being produced ? I doubt it very much. RTR rely on quick high voloume sales and then move onto the next subject. The generic coaches will sell ,whats the alternative? there is nothing. Not everybody makes kits either .

If you are a modeller ?.
There are simply zero decent accurate and/or sensibly priced kits relating to the LNER and pre grouping Coaches. The only alternative LNER related versions are the now very old D&S versions .Which are not that good either as shown by Graeme, when he compared his builds with other recent versions . 3d is in its infancy, and very expensive especially via Shapeways. I just got a bill for £25 for a print for a a small sprue of Coach vents/lamps from them, for another £5 I could have had a complete Generic RTR Coach !!.

Generic are far from perfect ,but better than nothing.
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