Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions (Complete...not quite)

[john coffin]

No problem, but I guess in part it might matter whether you are modelling the MGN in post LNER times
of pre.

I have not recently checked the various MGN books that I have to see whether there are any guides there.

Will try to find time to do so.

Paul

[john coffin]

Checking the Ronald Clark book, I make the following points

Yarmouth and North Norfolk Railway UP from Yarmouth to N. Walsham.
Lynn and Fakenham Railway, Up from Lenwade to Lynn.

There is a timetable for the Eastern and Midland 1883, but it does not actually define up or down.
Of other interest though is the item that a Fast Goods is limited to 20 Goods Waggons and Break,
or the equivalent, and must only stop or detach wagons at designated stations.

HTH

Paul

[Jim de Griz]

Checking the Ronald Clark book, I make the following points

Yarmouth and North Norfolk Railway UP from Yarmouth to N. Walsham.
Lynn and Fakenham Railway, Up from Lenwade to Lynn.

Thanks Paul, that fits with 'Up' being towards London, I would guess most of the M&GNJR drew the route via Peterborough, but there was an alternative via Cromer....

Which means (assuming they were running in the same period), the line might have witnessed the interesting/confusing situation of the Up Cromer-Kings' Cross passing the Up Sheringham-Liverpool St, but heading in the opposite direction!

(I'm away from my books at the moment so I can't check when the through running to Liverpool St started)

Of other interest though is the item that a Fast Goods is limited to 20 Goods Waggons and Break,
or the equivalent, and must only stop or detach wagons at designated stations.

That is both interesting and convenient as the absolute maximum number of waggons I can fit onto my layout is 20 + Brake Van.

Jim de Griz

[Jim de Griz]

The last 3 Gresleys are on the workbench, whilst the sides were drying I decided to have another look at the Howden Clerestory are there was something bugging me about the roof.

Here is where we started,

It looked ok from side on, but I thought I could tidy it up and there was something just wrong about the roofline when looking at it from above.

Wasn't until I tried removing the destination boards I realised what the major issue was, the roof wasn't just the wrong profile it was actually concave rather than convex.

So a new roof then. I added a plastic strip to form a new cantrail, then cut two strips of 0.5mm plasticard to form the roofs. Unlike last time I scored and bent the roof before fitting to give it a more representative shape and added an internal rib to strengthen it. A little work with filler to increase the heights of the end panels to match and I'm a lot happier with the result.

The upper roof could do with a bit more work and I would like to add some ventilators at a latter date. But that can wait form the MkIII roof.

Jim de Griz

[nzpaul]

They're looking good. I'll pass on the same advice Mr Wealleans gave me when I did a similar project a few years ago. By the time clerestory coached like that were in the company of more modern Gresley stock, they'd absorbed enough soot and detritus to turn the roof more or less black. Hope you don't mind but I've included a picture of one of the coaches I did using Graeme's resin roof. Up to you of course, whether you like the way it looks, or not.

Paul

[Jim de Griz]

They're looking good. I'll pass on the same advice Mr Wealleans gave me when I did a similar project a few years ago. By the time clerestory coached like that were in the company of more modern Gresley stock, they'd absorbed enough soot and detritus to turn the roof more or less black.

Thank you.

At the start of this project I made a deliberate decision to go with a medium grey roof even through I had a sneaking suspicion they would have been a darker colour after 20+ years service.

It was partially an aesthetic choice, but it also meant my LNER and LMS coaches have ended up with different coloured roofs (medium grey and dark grey respectively). That seemed appropriate as the LNER ones started off white.

Hope you don't mind but I've included a picture of one of the coaches I did using Graeme's resin roof.

Can't see why I would mind, it is always interested to see other peoples' approach/work.

It looks good, and I'm interested to see that you have added step boards. That is an nice detail and one I wouldn't have thought to include.

Jim de Griz

[Jim de Griz]

Home stretch.

Last three brake coaches are all built and currently waiting to be lined. I decided to try fitting the brass handles last this time to see if that simplified painting. Biggest challenge at the minute seems to be stopping me from rushing now I'm so close to finish the project.

I've also had a shot at scratch building some end doors to cover the odd holes in the Hornby ones.

Not too sure why those holes exist, but hopefully the doors I've built will be convincing enough to cover them up. As my corridor rakes tend to be fixed I've only build enough to fit on the ends that would actually be visible when the layout is in operation.

Incidentally, this project has left me with a significant surplus of old Hornby large flange wheels, quasi mkI bogies and similar odds and ends. Usually I hold onto this sort of thing for spares etc, but I can't see why I'd ever use the wheels or bogies. Can anyone suggest a use or do these need to be filed under B for Bin?

Jim de Griz

[Jim de Griz]

And that is the lot, project complete. Its an odd feeling to have finished something I've been working on, on and off, for nearly 2 years!

New Brake First for the Manchester Summer Saturday-only express, carry the better heeled patrons off for their summer holidays. The Howden Clerestory is now running on Fox Bogies again which I've modified to close the gap between the carriages a bit better. Work in progress to see if I can get them closer without buffers binding. The 12 Wheeler is an Isinglass Kit and my favorite coach.....as much as it is the single most likely coach to struggle with point-work. I figured the distance covered by this train justified proper catering.

Rest of the rake is made up of 2 Triang coaches with scratch built sides to make them resemble GCR Barnums and another Isinglass kit, this time a Brake Third.

The Barnums are too long, I misremembered the length of the Triang vehicles when I started the project and as I was working from photos not drawings simply didn't notice anything was wrong until they were complete. They are broadly proportionally correct, and being placed next to the even longer Restaurant Car helps hide their length.....still as my first attempt at scratch building anything I'm happy enough with them running alongside the other coaches,

Another new coach, this time a Brake Third at the head of an excursion from Nottingham. This was originally my second London set, but when paired with the A3 intended to pull it, the rake is too long to fit in its siding in the fiddle yard. (Doh) So I changed location as a mental excuse to change the locomotive. Currently my K3 is heading this train (not an unreasonable idea as a few seem to have found their way to Nottingham/Leicester in the 1936-1946 era), though a C1 or B17 is a future option. (assuming they will fit into the siding!)

Last of the new coaches is the remaining Brake First. As far as I can tell only 3 of these were ever built and I have a model of all of them. A touch unlikely, but I do like the look of them. It is heading up my first attempt at cutting and shunting in the form of a semi open composite and my first Hornby conversion, the buffet car, both now with better lining to help them blend it with the newer conversions. (Not too effectively in the case of the semi open, its by far the darkest Gresley on the layout, but then I gather there should be variation between coaches)

I'm not 100% sure I should have used the destination boards so freely. I don't see too many in photos, yet every coach was fitted for them so it seems reasonable to assume that the LNER made fairly heavy use of the boards. In this case it helps the layout 'tell a story' by making it quite clear where the train has come from and where it will be going back to.

Jim de Griz

[kimballthurlow]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for showing these great photos.
You did a clever job on those respective representative LNER trains.

Kimball

[DS239]

Incidentally, this project has left me with a significant surplus of old Hornby large flange wheels, quasi mkI bogies and similar odds and ends. Usually I hold onto this sort of thing for spares etc, but I can't see why I'd ever use the wheels or bogies. Can anyone suggest a use or do these need to be filed under B for Bin?

Put them on Ebay [or other sales sites] the Hornby Mk.1 bogie was always a strong seller [at least it was when I worked for one of the main spares retailers]

[Jim de Griz]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for showing these great photos.
You did a clever job on those respective representative LNER trains.

Kimball

Thank you Kimball.

I've marked the project as Complete? because somewhat inevitably there are still a few things I'd like to improve upon.

The replacement end doors has been a partial success. I'm actually pretty happy with the doors themselves, but they highlight just how thin the bellows are!

With a bit of work and some plasticard I think I can improve on this.

Similarly there is still work to be done on coupling, improving reliability and trying to narrow the gap between coaches where appropriate. I'm probably going to look at adding black paper bellows between coaches in the future.

I've also got some dynamos for the under-frame, but I'm just not quite sure where they should be fitted under the Hornby floor.

Jobs for another day though, at the minute I'm more than happy with them the way they are.

I probably have enough teak coaches for now (Though a 3 wheel full brake and GER 50' are on the too do list). Might need to mix things up a bit with some through LMS coaches.

Put them on Ebay [or other sales sites] the Hornby Mk.1 bogie was always a strong seller [at least it was when I worked for one of the main spares retailers]

Interesting that there is a market for them, that's something I'll have to look into, thank you.

Jim de Griz

[Jim de Griz]

I think I can safely blame Phil for this, it was pictures of his Cambridge Buffet Express that encouraged/inspired me to try to go one step further than I had previously.

As noted on the Potters Bar et al thread, the Hornby torpedo vents are too recessed so they have been cut away and replaced with Isinglass versions. Difficult to get in a perfectly straight line, but I seem to have done well enough for government work on this and am very pleased with the improvement.

I'm in the process of fitting the 'Keen System' to the underframes, so have fitted the matching spring loaded floating corridor connectors. Tricker to fit simply because I have already glued the bodies together, these would have been easy to fit if I wasn't 'retrofitting' them. Still, only about an hour to fit all ten and only one spring disappeared off to goodness knows where.

For the two brake coaches I've used a thin piece of plasticard to make the bellows look more substantial. It is a bit of a cheat, but I think they look alot better than they did before.

Next step, fitting the Keen mechanism to the underframe. I'm not expecting any major issues with this rake and their plastic Hornby bogies. Things could get interesting with the London rake and its 3d printed bogies.

Jim de Griz

[Jim de Griz]

After no little amount of cursing and a drop of blood the 'Nottingham Rake' is back on the rails and working nicely. Annoying almost all the actual problems was caused by a bad bit of trackwork rather than the close coupling system itself.

I think replacing the torpedo vents has been well worth the effect, they are significantly more prominent!

I'm also pleased with my (rather basic) upgrade to the brake coaches corridor connectors. Certainly looks better than the unmodified coach to its left.

Jim de Griz

[Jim de Griz]

Clerestory now has new vents + close coupling. Very pleased with the improvement.

As these run on Isinglass bogies, I used Porterhouse's system after filling down the NEM pockets to produce a closer fit.

Jim de Griz

[Danby Wiske]

Vents are a huge improvement - definitely worth the effort!