Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions (Complete...not quite)

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john coffin
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by john coffin »

The Locomotive of May 1912, has an article about the Spenser Moulton bogie, now being used on many dining cars and saloons.

I am not sure if there were definite changes dates, have found no other evidence yet.

Mind you maybe with the lifespan of many of them, maybe Hitachi should be using them!!!!!!!

Paul
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NZRedBaron
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by NZRedBaron »

Hatfield Shed wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:57 pm I would go for the brake 3rd in LNER days. People went to market for 'serious' sales and purchases, and could well be taking to or returning home from market with smaller livestock, feathered and furred, and bulky items like sacked vegetables, bolts of cloth, etc.. Extra van space would be an asset.
Fair enough then; would a strengthener like that be at the top or tail? Or would either be fine?
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by Hatfield Shed »

Atlantic 3279 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:08 pm Well, unfortunately, another point that has certainly been made elsewhere is that the Genesis coaches are just not good representations of the kind of six or four wheeled carriages that were typical of any of the pre-group LNER constituents.
I will admit a total ignorance of the GER's stock, but were I modelling the Mildenhall branch train in 1938 - the picture of which opens the LNER chapter of 'The Big Four in Colour 1935 - 1950' - then I would look at the six wheelers Hattons and Hornby are waving at us to see which might be the best fit, add footboards and adjust any other detail to better suit, and be happy for a quick route to something that suggests the prototype. (Since I have an E4 to rebuild when I get around to it, there's quite a chance I might do this one day.
NZRedBaron wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 3:56 am ...would a strengthener like that be at the top or tail? Or would either be fine?
It will go on whatever end is accessible when added, unless there was some operational instruction stating otherwise. In use on a typical
'out and home' turn it will then be coupled to the loco one way, and the last vehicle in the train the other way.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Hatfield Shed wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:42 am I will admit a total ignorance of the GER's stock, but were I modelling the Mildenhall branch train in 1938 - the picture of which opens the LNER chapter of 'The Big Four in Colour 1935 - 1950' - then I would look at the six wheelers Hattons and Hornby are waving at us to see which might be the best fit, add footboards and adjust any other detail to better suit, and be happy for a quick route to something that suggests the prototype. (Since I have an E4 to rebuild when I get around to it, there's quite a chance I might do this one day.
My hopes regarding a 1930s local passenger train of mixed MS&L and LDEC stock began along those lines, because at a very quick glance the Genesis vehicles as originally proposed looked as if they might be tweakable into something near-enough. Unfortunately, Hattons then started revising the design in response to pressure from "independent experts" on RMWeb (and maybe other sources) who seem to me not to have been independent and possibly not so expert either, and soon the revised designs had lost some of the features that might have helped them to serve as the vehicles that I wanted - but they do appear to have "unintentionally" maintained or gained great similarity to the carriages of some companies in the Midlands, the West and the South. The purchase cost, the time and effort involved in necessary alterations, and the poor accuracy of the final result (unless I altered them almost out of existence) just didn't add up to a satisfactory total. I drew the same conclusion regarding GER stock too, not because I wanted to model any, but because I'd studied the GE six wheelers after finding that the body style of the LDEC stock was fairly evidently based closely on that of the GE.
The non-suitability of the Genesis vehicles as representations of GNR or NBR non-bogie stock is obvious.
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jwealleans
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by jwealleans »

Thread drift, but there are some good looking and recently released etched kits available for genuine GE 6 (and 4) wheelers.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I agree that the thread has drifted undesirably, although I felt obliged to point out that the mentioned Genesis offerings are not really even "typical" as far as any LNER styles are concerned

Shall we now get back to Margate Gresley conversions into GNR versions, if there's any more to say on that subject?
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by Jim de Griz »

Inaccuracies aside, I do feel the basic body is close enough to make modification worthwhile. Especially for those of us just starting with building and modifying coaches, the simple fact that you can rely upon the bogies and basic frame to run well is quite a morale boaster after sweating blood making a Parkside/Ratio kit navigate point work!

I had a go at turning a sleeping car into a ECJS Buffet Conversion a few months back. It is my first (and so far only) attempt at cutting and shunting, so while I can see the imperfections (still working on my filling and sanding technique) I'm still quite pleased with the results. It might not be perfect, but I feel its a reasonable representation of the type and represents the limits of my skills when I built it.
Buffet Carr.jpg


Definitely need to revisit the underframe at some point though!

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

You've made the effort to produce the model, and you've allowed us to see the result, so I'm certainly not going to criticize. Nothing ventured, nothing gained is the saying, I believe.
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manna
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

Interesting conversion, maybe one day I'll have a go at one, Congrats :D

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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by Jim de Griz »

Thank you :)
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by john coffin »

Checking Harris the Oakwood Series one,
he suggests that the Moulton bogie started to be used around 1909
with a 10 ft version introduced around the same time.
Every day a little more knowledge falls from the trees of book learning!

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Interestingly early use of those bogies Paul.

I may have mentioned this before, in another place, although I've not yet made use of the idea. In respect of " a typical GNR style carriage" rather than an actual diagram, I think there is yet another possible approach to the use of altered Margate Gresleyoids, perhaps the brake composite in particular. The bowed body ends can be unclipped easily and therefore flat ends without vestibules / gangways could be substituted. The domed ends of the roof could be trimmed back and re-worked to match, extra glazing bars inserted in the windows if desired and door-top ventilators exchanged for top-lights or other vent styles, giving the resultant vehicle both the style and roughly the right length of the Gresley GNR secondary stock.
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NZRedBaron
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by NZRedBaron »

Atlantic 3279 wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 4:29 pm Interestingly early use of those bogies Paul.

I may have mentioned this before, in another place, although I've not yet made use of the idea. In respect of " a typical GNR style carriage" rather than an actual diagram, I think there is yet another possible approach to the use of altered Margate Gresleyoids, perhaps the brake composite in particular. The bowed body ends can be unclipped easily and therefore flat ends without vestibules / gangways could be substituted. The domed ends of the roof could be trimmed back and re-worked to match, extra glazing bars inserted in the windows if desired and door-top ventilators exchanged for top-lights or other vent styles, giving the resultant vehicle both the style and roughly the right length of the Gresley GNR secondary stock.
Your idea intrigues me, as it could be useful for my layout. Do tell.
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I believe I have told, in the passage you have quoted.
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NZRedBaron
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Re: Hornby Gresley Coaches into GNR versions

Post by NZRedBaron »

Well then, maybe I should modify my statement; I'd be interested to see pictures and explanations of this done, so I could have a go at doing it for some of my own old stock.
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