The LNER Encyclopedia

Daft question, did the GNR ever build any All First Corridor Coaches on a 58' 6'' chassis, or were they all on the longer 61' 6'' chassis?

I ask because I'm considering how to cut and shunt some of my multiple Corridor Composites into a mixture of 3rds and 1sts. I've found several diagrams for 3rds, but can't find a First Class equivalent....or any pictures....or any reference to one...

The set up seems like it should be obvious (7 compartments against 8 ) I'm just reluctant to go to the bother of cutting and shunting unless I'm going to get at least vaguely close to a real diagram.

Has anyone heard of such a coach, or am I imagining something that was simply never built?

Jim de Griz

From 1905 Firsts to Diagrams 86 and 87 were both 61' 6", only the Brake First to Diagram 96 was 58' 6".

Before that, cannot help as I don't have the pre-Gresley information.

Ahh, I suspected that might be the case.

Thank you, you've saved me spending yet more time hunting down something that doesn't exist.

That's a shame, cutting and shunting to diag 248 and 248B (Corridor Third and Semi Open Third) looks fairly straightforward if I just take the third class compartments from two Hornby Composites and combine them. I was hoping to use the spare 1st class compartments to build a similar Corridor First, but no such luck, I'll have to get more inventive.

Jim de Griz

Just to interject,
Dia 89, First brake was built for Manchester Flyer and Sheffield stock in 1906.
That was a 4 compartment corridor with Lavatory, plus a 24ft 10 brake compartment. in a 58ft 6 body.

Paul

Thank you for the suggestion!

Diag 89 (Correction 96) is definitely on my to-do-list once I get the regular coaches out of the way and start on the Composite Brakes. She is probably going to be the last I attempt though as the style of windows looks quite different from the Hornby Gresleys, I think I need more experience with cutting and shunting before I try to replicate those.

She will make an interesting addition though once she is done.

Jim de Griz

Sorry Jim, slight mistake, it is in fact on page 96 in the GNR carriage diagram book.

The corridor side windows seem pretty standard to me, but maybe not?

Dia 89 in there is actually a Howlden carriage.

Paul

Egg on my face for not checking the diagram number on the drawing.

I did mean 96, I've got the drawing from Isinglass and the corridor windows look to be a different style from the later coaches. It looks like there is little to no panelling between the frames.

Jim de Griz

No Egg Jim, the GNR diagrams are difficult to meander through and make sure you have got it correct.
don't forget the beading will be different on each side because of the corridor and lack of doors.
Paul

So I decided to have a go at Diagram 251, a semi open composite.

Doesn't quite fit the idea of reducing the overwhelming number of composite coaches I own, but it has the virtue that it looked like it could be produced from 1 hornby coach. In short, it diagram 251 looks a lot like the hornby composite, except there is an extra half 'compartment' inserted between the 1st and 3rd class seating.
I managed to get the side off cleaner than last time, fortunately the corridor side doesn't need altering.
Getting straight cuts into the bodywork proved harder however. Fundamentally the two sets of compartments needed moving outwards so I removed a panel from either side and moved them into the middle, using them to form a new window.
Filling has started with some additional strips of plasticard added to replace material removed by the razersaw. As you can see I didn't quiet get the side straight and level so that needed correcting. I've also added the extra drop lights. I think the plastic I've used is too thick, but from prior experience they will look better once painted.
Sides now reattached and yet more filling. Not my favourite job but I'm working on getting better at it. Notably the sides are now a touch shorter than they started, something to bear in mind for more exotic builds. I've also started cutting up the compartments to make room for the extra half compartment. Naturally the 1st and 3rd compartments are the wrong way round so I'll take the opportunity to swap those round.

Jim de Griz

Compartments placed in the correct order, unneeded walls removed and replacement floor/walls/seat produced from spare plasticard.

One thing to note is that the locator pegs on the floor and the glazing needed to be removed. They are all in the wrong place now I've completely changed the order of the furnature.
Current state of play.

Filling is 'finished', I'm waiting on it to cure fully so I can check it before painting.

I've added grab handles, door handles and (what I assume) are safety handles on the roof made from brass rod.

Next job is to get the underframe detail and bogies started.

(Incidentally a major advantage of posting my work in progress pictures here is the camera is ALOT better at picking up mistakes than I am by the naked eye)

Jim de Griz

A cunning plan indeed. Are the ventilator hoods above the doors correct?

Atlantic 3279 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:44 am Are the ventilator hoods above the doors correct?

Unfortunately not.

I looked at this and given their size and location I couldn't see how I could reliable achieve the cuts required. (Particularly on the corridor side where I would prefer not to remove the side if possible)

I would be very much open to suggestions that I could try out on the next rebuild.

Jim de Griz

All I could think off when I did conversions to GNR style, was to drill out the bulk of each vent hood and the material behind it, and then patiently file each aperture to a rectangular hole of correct size to represent the top-light or fan light, depending on what we ought to call it in this case.

Hello Jim,
I find your project interesting and will follow it to the end.
I have found that the razor saw method is not as precise as using a blade.
This is with continuous light cuts on both sides until breakable.

To get this right though you have to use some sort of metal template cut specifically for the job and which also helps to holds down the work.
This works for me because I can have a cutting side at the correct angle to an adjacent side, 90° or whatever angle required.
I just use normal flat roofing steel, cut out using tin snips - overall about 150mm square.

The only proviso to all that - some plastics are better at these exercises than others, so it depends!

Kimball

I always worked with a thin bladed razor saw, marking the cut line with a fine scriber or blade first in order to give the saw a groove in which to move to and fro. I kept the saw flat / level in that groove until a reasonably deep cut was developing, and always worked slowly so that I could control the saw.
I find that in many places, even deep score lines in the side are not enough to allow it to be snapped cleanly as there are too many apertures and spindly bits where the side would rather break instead. use of a knife blade instead of the razor saw also tends to create a ridge of displaced plastic on each side of the cut, so that the surface has to be re-smoothed rather more than it would if a neat razor saw cut is achieved, so there's extra risk of damaging surface features / finish.
We all have our preferred methods. Whatever works best for you is the way to do it.