Cab colours

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drmditch

Re: Cab colours

Post by drmditch »

Herewith a picture of the cab interior of No.1621, in Locomotion, Shildon yesterday.
As the paint dates show, this was put into 'preservation' condition in Darlington Works in 1947.
I have read (somewhere) that the work York Carriage Works did in 1973, in preparation for the locomotives transfer to the then new York based NRM was limited to patch repair.
Post_02x.jpg
(Sorry - I was trying to show the 'staining and graining', but have difficulty getting the picture small enough in this wretched W10.)
JonBates
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Re: Cab colours

Post by JonBates »

Ken Hoole quotes, in his books on NER locomotives, that the cabs were painted in light wood grain i.e teak.

This he specifies for the livery up to 1894 - he is not specific about what happened with the later liveries.

However there is a photo in Big Four in Colour that shows a number of locos ex- works but minus tenders. The cabs on the two ex-NER 0-6-0 s look to be wood grained finish - at least above the waist. The K3 is too indistinct to confirm one way or another.

This all agrees with the photos in the previous posts. So I think that exNER locos retained the wood grained finish to their cabs.

I’m not sure whether Darlington used this finish on the LNER “standard” classes though. I read somewhere that red (oxide?) was used on some cabs (possibly black locos?) and also that the locomotive green was used on green locos. I’m not totally sure about this and stand to be corrected!
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Cab colours

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

That's a useful summary of NE policy, even if the information is incomplete.
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kimballthurlow
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Re: Cab colours

Post by kimballthurlow »

My 1:16 scale model of the Tennant had a 1" sq of 1mm wood ply layer in the cab roof.
It was such a small fragment I discarded it.

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Re: Cab colours

Post by Hatfield Shed »

JonBates wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:51 pm ...However there is a photo in Big Four in Colour that shows a number of locos ex- works but minus tenders. The cabs on the two ex-NER 0-6-0 s look to be wood grained finish - at least above the waist...
Well observed. The feature that originally caught my eye on first looking through this book was the socking great dent to the rear of the cab roof of 2037! I expect some very hard questions were asked about just how that had occurred on a loco bulled up for exhibition.
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Re: Cab colours

Post by mick b »

quote
However there is a photo in Big Four in Colour that shows a number of locos ex- works but minus tenders. The cabs on the two ex-NER 0-6-0 s look to be wood grained finish - at least above the waist. The K3 is too indistinct to confirm one way or another.











Just had a look in my copy of the Big 4 in Colour . To my eyes the ex NER J24 and J25 Cabs are Mid Red above the waist line. Perhaps Teak Scumble was reserved for passenger engines.
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Re: Cab colours

Post by silverfox »

Would the NRM have painting details from works info? IIRC there was an LMS version somewhere on the Web
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Cab colours

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

JonBates wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:51 pm Ken Hoole quotes, in his books on NER locomotives, that the cabs were painted in light wood grain i.e teak.

This he specifies for the livery up to 1894 - he is not specific about what happened with the later liveries.
I've just been reading that same book. Livery information appears in more than one place, and there is a comment about use of "reddish brown" for cab interiors "later", after discontinuation of wood graining.
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JonBates
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Re: Cab colours

Post by JonBates »

Atlantic 3279 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:22 pm

I've just been reading that same book. Livery information appears in more than one place, and there is a comment about use of "reddish brown" for cab interiors "later", after discontinuation of wood graining.
Thanks for that reminder.......I thought that I had seen somewhere that the cabs were painted red. As Mick points out in his post it is very possible that the colour photo shows a red colour and not teak.
If I was to apply some logic then one obvious time for the change would be in 1928 when the painting economies came in. Of course it could have been earlier....or related to change of personnel in the workshops....

So all I can say is that I will not be painting my ex-NER cabs in black! Which, of course, is a cue for someone to come up with definitive proof that they were black :D
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Re: Cab colours

Post by mick b »

Same subject has appeared on the Dark side.

Ex NER J24 and J25 ,ex works at Darlington 1938. Pho shown for education purposes only.
fullsizeoutput_38db.jpeg
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Re: Cab colours

Post by kimballthurlow »

It appears there might be some teak under the front spectacle.
Also some framing under the right side window frames.

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Re: Cab colours

Post by mick b »

Found in the book The 4-4-0 Classes of the NER by K Hoole.

Cab Interior Colours

NER period

Light coloured "Wood" graining /scumble. The preserved D17 has a Cab in this type of livery/layout.

LNER period

Gateshead. Green , until 1932 when works closed

Darlington. Red

It does'nt say anything about colours for other ex NER Classes of Locos.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Cab colours

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I wish I'd noticed your last post 3 or 4 days ago Mick. I didn't so it was only yesterday that I found my copy of that book too, and just this morning that I read the same details that you have stated.
It makes an interesting comparison with Hoole's comments nine years later in his book on all of the NER classes (or those in existence 1894 and later) which refer to reddish brown painted cab interiors "later", after discontinuation of wood graining.
It would be interesting to know whether "reddish brown" and "red" are meant to refer to different finishes and different periods, and if so, to what period reddish brown was applicable. Also not stated specifically in the 4-4-0 book as far as I can see, is cab colour for black locos, and some of the 4-4-0s were certainly in black before Gateshead works closed and while Darlington was stated to be painting cab interiors (of green locos?) green.
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Re: Cab colours

Post by mick b »

Graeme
I havent looked at Yeadon , no idea if Gateshead was used for 4-4-0 Locos maintenance between 1928 and closure. How quick were many Locos repainted after 1928 ? , I doubt if the cash poor LNER rushed any Locos through the system, especially any on their last legs.

Personally on Black Locos I will go for "Red", again how many shades of Red can there be ?? Perhaps Hundreds or even more. Either way it will be a grubby shade .

I have just started painting the D21 on my thread. It will be in early Apple Green LNER , I am very tempted to do the Cab in "Teak" , it would suit the Green much better then Red. The interior of the ex NER Cab Roofs never seems to be painted, I presume they were always wood even with a Steel outer Roof ?. The preserved J27 still has a natural Wood Cab Roof fitted.

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Re: Cab colours

Post by jwealleans »

The NER called the red oxide colour they used for freight wagons 'Indian Red' - is that where the 'reddish brown' and 'red' conflation originates?
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