The LNER Encyclopedia

I happened to mention in passing to my dad that I was about to apply some black to the ends of some of my ex-NER carriages in LNER livery, and he asked if I was sure they were black, which threw me. I thought I knew they were, but when I looked for evidence it wasn't forthcoming.

Any thoughts (or better, evidence)?

And while we're on the subject, what about horseboxes? Pendon's ex-NER one (again in LNER days) has brown ends, as do those made by Steve Banks (https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/1 ... -horse-box), and, seemingly the ones in the MRJ (No.19).

Interesting as I always thought black ends, so I checked my horsebox livery drawing, 12897N ARRANGEMENT OF WRITING FOR HORSEBOX dated 1938.
It does not mention black ends. It says body and body ironwork to be painted teak colour and varnished. When I built my model of this box I painted it teak as the drawing. Official photos seem to back this up.

Dave wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:34 pm Interesting as I always thought black ends, so I checked my horsebox livery drawing, 12897N ARRANGEMENT OF WRITING FOR HORSEBOX dated 1938.
It does not mention black ends. It says body and body ironwork to be painted teak colour and varnished. When I built my model of this box I painted it teak as the drawing. Official photos seem to back this up.

Thanks, Dave. So we're saying teak for the h.box, but I'm thinking black for carriages. Would you agree?

Yes thats my understanding.

Daddyman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:40 pm Thanks, Dave. So we're saying teak for the h.box, but I'm thinking black for carriages. Would you agree?

Black ends were introduced in the livery changes of 1928.

I have posted this elsewhere, but it shows what is required. John

Yes John and Bill for carriages definitely, but not it seems for the 1938 horsebox builds, if you check the drawing there is no mention of black. I don't think the late 30's cct's had black ends.

Edit as I had missed Bills reply.

Dave wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:29 pm Yes John for carriages definitely

I don't think we're quite at "definitely" yet: that D.53 is in ersatz teak, not in the LNER brown that the majority were in. I agree that it's strongly suggestive, though. The best I've seen is the cover of Huntriss' On North Eastern Lines.

billbedford wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:27 am

Daddyman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:40 pm Thanks, Dave. So we're saying teak for the h.box, but I'm thinking black for carriages. Would you agree?

Black ends were introduced in the livery changes of 1928.

Thanks, Bill. I can take that to the bank, can I?

Daddyman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:13 pm

billbedford wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:27 am [Black ends were introduced in the livery changes of 1928.

Thanks, Bill. I can take that to the bank, can I?

According to Campling the year was 1925

Daddyman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:12 pm

Dave wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:29 pm Yes John for carriages definitely

I don't think we're quite at "definitely" yet: that D.53 is in ersatz teak, not in the LNER brown that the majority were in. I agree that it's strongly suggestive, though. The best I've seen is the cover of Huntriss' On North Eastern Lines.

On what basis are you making the statement 'LNER brown that the majority were in'?

And in which period?

I could not possibly say that, because there is so little evidence.

John

There were two recent photos of the Dia 53 as above and a Clerestory in which Teak graining was clearly visible in the photo.

JASd17 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:13 pm

Daddyman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:12 pm I don't think we're quite at "definitely" yet: that D.53 is in ersatz teak, not in the LNER brown that the majority were in. I agree that it's strongly suggestive, though. The best I've seen is the cover of Huntriss' On North Eastern Lines.

On what basis are you making the statement 'LNER brown that the majority were in'?

And in which period?

I could not possibly say that, because there is so little evidence.

I think the answer to that is that by the late 20s almost all pre-grouping stock had a teak finish, but by the mid-40s most would have been painted plain brown.

Dont agree with the Teak Brown only being used in the 1940's , I have only ever seen photos of Two Teaked ex NER vehicles as mentioned earlier. There are a couple of ex GER 6 wheelers as well at Mangapps Museum in Teak livery, revealed under layers of paint as well.

I look forward to the photos.

billbedford wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:17 am

JASd17 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:13 pm

Daddyman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:12 pm I don't think we're quite at "definitely" yet: that D.53 is in ersatz teak, not in the LNER brown that the majority were in. I agree that it's strongly suggestive, though. The best I've seen is the cover of Huntriss' On North Eastern Lines.

On what basis are you making the statement 'LNER brown that the majority were in'?

And in which period?

I could not possibly say that, because there is so little evidence.

I think the answer to that is that by the late 20s almost all pre-grouping stock had a teak finish, but by the mid-40s most would have been painted plain brown.

Surely not? This well-known shot of the D.53 is the only one I've seen of an ex-NER carriage in the 30s in teak. Granted, all the photos of these carriages in the 30s are b&w, but the uniformity of the the finish strongly suggests that the vast, vast majority were in brown paint. As I've always understood it, there was an early attempt to scrape the NER paint off and varnish the wood that beneath, but the LNER quickly gave up on that.